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[Music]

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welcome back my friends it's time for

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the midnight hour show last week we

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heard from michael horn billy meyer's

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biggest supporter and u.s media

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representative this week i thought we'd

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flip the coin and let you hear from the

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case's biggest detractor and skeptic

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kalkorf

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let's get into it folks

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listen uh i i don't know uh i don't

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really have a game plan except that we

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could start with billy meyer and then

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i'd like to ask you some i'd like to

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talk to you a little bit about roswell

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maybe we can get in this annie jacobs

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stuff and some of the other stuff that

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i've heard you've been talking about on

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your show

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anything you want yeah i got all your

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books i got to tell you it's i'm so

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happy to get to talk to you in person

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because uh

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you know i started my show and then it

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just sort of organically went the way of

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let's bust cosmic con men and fakes and

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frauds

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and everybody kept mentioning you to me

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and i kept saying yeah i got his books

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as one of the people that kind of

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inspired me to look deep into some of

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these people and see through the

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deception and the profiteering

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to get to the truth you know

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and place them aside and you've been

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doing this forever how did you get

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started with that kind of thing

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uh i started um on october 17 1973. um

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i officially make the 19th as my

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so-called anniversary meaning

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um i was in sixth grade i was 11 years

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young

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and at that time in our class every

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student had to bring in a newspaper

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clipping of whatever was going on in in

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the news it was up to you you picked

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whatever the subject you had to tell the

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teacher you know they went around the

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room every morning called on you you had

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to spend 30 seconds to summarize it like

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you were a little newscast or whatever

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so one day on october 17th and through

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the 18th 19th 1973 for the next few days

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everybody

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without exception brings in articles and

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ufos i mean what the hell is going on

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you know i don't know what's going on

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and

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i i i was our family was the only one

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who didn't subscribe to a newspaper my

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dad just didn't want to pay 10 cents a

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day for one and he would like that

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yeah he just um you know he watched the

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news on tv in the evening when he got

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home and that was his thing and uh

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i listened to the radio

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uh so what happened is um i collected

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all these new newspaper clippings and i

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have many of them still today

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and there was this one case and you may

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remember it it was quite famous and it's

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since pretty much disappeared off the

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radar this was a case in falkville

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alabama in 1973 on october 19th or our

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17th where police chief named jeffrey

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greenhaw

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he claims he got a phone call to go out

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to

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investigate this ufo

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report out in the boonies goes out there

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sees this creature standing on the road

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takes four polaroid photos

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from a distance of as close as about 10

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feet away the last two photos then the

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creature supposedly runs away the

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policeman chases him spins out this is

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the chief of police

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so that case hooked me because

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even as being 11 years old i'm thinking

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okay either it's real

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or it's not duh at least we can know and

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if it is real

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the ramifications of this are

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infinite if it isn't real

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we're really screwed up

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uh because there's

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there's this mass delusion hallucination

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whatever you want to call it going on

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globally especially in the us though

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about aliens ufos and so on some

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hysteria we've got nuclear weapons not a

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good combo

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so that's what what got me interested

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because i thought that no matter what

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the answer was to the ufo issue

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and it must be considered on a

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case-by-case basis there's no single

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answer for everything it's not peanut

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butter here um

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we can only learn from that and then

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that's why uh

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the fears i had back then even as a

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young kid of this uh

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belief in in crazy stupid things uh lack

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of critical thinking if it became

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mainstream

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it can really

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implode a country and that's what we see

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happening we

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we're the divided states of america

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we've never been more polarized

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yeah i noticed on your show i was kind

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of surprised because i know you from

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your books i didn't know that you were

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so interested in politics and so i

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started recently sort of binge catching

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is that

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opposed to some of the other research

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that you've done in the past

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you know thanks for asking that question

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uh and and again i appreciate being on

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your show and and um

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uh love the fact that we're doing this

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free form on unrehearsed

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uh to me it's really the evolution of

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the overall issue of let's call it the

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human condition whatever you want to

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call it whatever's going on with the

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human

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evolution de-evolution maybe

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versus how i started off uh you know as

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somebody who grew up with bill moore and

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stan friedman and was pro-ufo was a

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friedman night until things came between

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us which we can come back to a little

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bit later

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um

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it it really is an evolution of not only

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the journalism but life journey because

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again i left the us in the year 2000 and

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i went to you know 27 different

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countries was gone out of the u.s for

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nearly 20 years

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and i learned a lot of stuff and

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of course being the only american and

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then being a jew in some areas around

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the world and being in some really crazy

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remote areas around the world that we're

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not safe

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i did a lot of journalism on everything

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but the paranormal and ufos because i

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learned very quickly that nobody really

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cares about those subjects once you get

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outside the u.s and that's just a fact

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the interest level goes way down and i

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often got teased

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about my interest in it because people

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would find out who i was overseas or

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whatever

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and when i started writing for daily

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posts daily world over the years

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thousands of articles full-page specials

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a lot of stuff on terrorism

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because i left the united states my last

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memory of the us

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was standing in seattle downtown at the

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space needle on the uh millennial

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anniversary of 2000.

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and

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deliberately because the area was closed

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down

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and

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they had caught a terrorist connected to

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al-qaeda that had come in through the

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canadian border

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and he was gonna bomb the space needle

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or la

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international they weren't quite sure at

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that time

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and i told my wife at the time i said

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you know i'm not going to let bin laden

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tell me what kind of holiday to have i'm

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this is the one and only millennial

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millennium we're going down there

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and i was working at boeing at the time

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and i knew that this terrorism thing was

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going to break it was kind of obvious

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and i knew it wasn't just an israeli

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jewish thing that's just plain stupidity

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but america had its head up it's you

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know what

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concerning terrorism and bill clinton

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led bin laden off the hook he could have

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killed him a couple times should have

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taken the shot but didn't

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and of course we must remember that

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shortly after bill clinton became

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president the first world trade center

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bombing occurred and that was related to

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uh

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eventually the second al qaeda attack

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because it was uh uh khalid sheikh

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mohammed's nephew ramsay yosef who did

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that bombing they just went back to

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finish the job on 9 11. yeah and so

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yeah so all this was going on and and

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i saw

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millennial madness uh creeping in and

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you you remember it there was the this

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huge explosion of

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crazy paranormal obsessive programming

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on american tv around the 50th

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anniversary of roswell in 1997

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there was the heavens gate cult

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uh where uh you know the people had

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killed themselves and i was warning

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uh the media we did a fox special

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world's greatest hoaxes where we warn

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people even about the billy meyer cult

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this idea that this is the only place in

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in the world where people are going to

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gather and be safe when the world ends

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you know what's coming back by the way

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um according to michael horn any day now

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you know yeah

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we we have a sort of

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it's evolving

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but i realized when he was telling me

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this that this wasn't the first rodeo

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that they've been to

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it was

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they they pulled this in 2000 and again

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in 2012 the same kind of thing so

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yeah you're right about that and the

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meyer cult ultimately is a doomsday cult

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and and when i say that what i mean is

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they're not like counting down the

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minutes but here you've got a guy that's

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their so-called prophet you know he's

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due to reincarnate soon right because

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it's not going to be around much longer

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they've got you know everyone only lives

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a certain age according to their

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whatever made up stuff

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so uh it

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what you have is a guy who claims to you

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know be a prophet of the new age and

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he's complete hoaxer and fraud

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um

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before we get into admirer if i can uh

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uh as i was you know growing up again as

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a young kid the first thing i did was i

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read every book i could get my hands on

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i met stanton friedman and got to know

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janelle and heinek because there was no

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internet and we had to do things with

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the old smith chrono typewriter back

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then and we used snail mail um i

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corresponded and got to know all the top

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researchers as newspaper clippings from

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that time prove

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and only friedman and just one or two

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others knew i was a little kid

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all these other people

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that's kind of funny yeah yeah because

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i'd write them letters you know i'd see

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some article by carl sagan i'd say well

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i'd have an opinion on that i'd write

279
00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:12,480
him and i'd reference someone we both

280
00:10:19,670 --> 00:10:13,519
knew

281
00:10:21,829 --> 00:10:19,680
ironically

282
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:21,839
um knew my age they thought i was an

283
00:10:24,630 --> 00:10:22,880
adult

284
00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:24,640
which was funny

285
00:10:29,430 --> 00:10:27,200
and then i tried to get the media to

286
00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:29,440
hide my age but they wouldn't do that of

287
00:10:33,430 --> 00:10:30,800
course because they said that's the

288
00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:33,440
story and and i said that's ridiculous

289
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:35,040
it should be the data not not the

290
00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:36,480
messenger you know

291
00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:37,440
so

292
00:10:44,630 --> 00:10:42,320
as i got to know wendell stevens in high

293
00:10:47,350 --> 00:10:44,640
school so i've known him way before

294
00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:47,360
meyer case even happened

295
00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:49,519
uh we traded ufo photos i had the third

296
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:52,000
largest photo collection at that time

297
00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:53,920
and gave it up basically when i left the

298
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:55,360
us

299
00:11:02,389 --> 00:11:00,399
plane and uh what happened was um this

300
00:11:05,590 --> 00:11:02,399
meyer thing came up and i'd heard about

301
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:05,600
it independent of um

302
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:07,920
wendell i was friends with major coleman

303
00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:11,279
von kavitsky of the old icufon network

304
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:13,600
of hans jacob who was the official

305
00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:15,839
keeper of the minor photo

306
00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:17,279
binder

307
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:19,040
he lived uh at the bottom of the

308
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,120
mountains where meyer

309
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:23,519
lives and his his cult is so i knew

310
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:25,680
these european researchers

311
00:11:30,069 --> 00:11:28,720
and we all knew each other and um

312
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:30,079
wendell and i

313
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:32,399
you know studied cases together

314
00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:34,800
corresponded and then i said hey how can

315
00:11:38,069 --> 00:11:36,160
i help with the meyer thing you know i

316
00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:38,079
even speak german you don't

317
00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:40,800
and uh because i i did in high school

318
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:43,040
and um for the first time ever wendell

319
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:46,160
was defensive and very guarded

320
00:11:49,269 --> 00:11:47,680
and that just didn't seem like the

321
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,279
window i knew

322
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:51,360
so something was going on and then a

323
00:11:55,829 --> 00:11:53,760
friend of mine brought their book that

324
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:55,839
had just come out ufo contact from the

325
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:58,079
pleiades volume one

326
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:59,040
and

327
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:00,720
i looked at the back section on the

328
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:03,440
computer analysis of ufo photos that was

329
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:06,480
in that book and i saw immediately that

330
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:09,360
either the person who laid out the book

331
00:12:13,269 --> 00:12:10,959
didn't know what they were doing

332
00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:13,279
or the people who laid out the book knew

333
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:14,560
what they were doing they're committing

334
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:16,000
fraud

335
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,600
because all the right words were there

336
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:19,680
technically but the images didn't match

337
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:21,040
the technical

338
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:22,800
bs under them

339
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:24,639
so there are only two ways to explain it

340
00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:26,160
wendell admitted to me he was a

341
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:28,320
one-fourth partner in genesis 3

342
00:12:33,910 --> 00:12:30,720
productions the company that did it

343
00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:33,920
and it turned out that that whole

344
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,240
publication of that book was basically a

345
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:38,720
scam it went to court as i showed in my

346
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:40,240
expose book

347
00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:42,160
um spacious of the pleiades the billy

348
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:44,079
myers story yeah if anybody is

349
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:46,160
interested i have to say if anybody is

350
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:48,639
interested in how do you

351
00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:51,519
get to the truth behind what i term as

352
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:53,760
some of these cosmic con men and billy

353
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:55,760
meyer is one of the original cosmic con

354
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:56,480
men

355
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:57,360
uh

356
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,480
cal's book is amazing it's amazing the

357
00:13:04,629 --> 00:13:02,240
work that you did to kind of prove that

358
00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:04,639
this was all fake and fraudery and

359
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:06,800
fakery and and uh

360
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:08,399
i remember

361
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:10,399
uh getting that book

362
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:11,120
and

363
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:13,360
being a mix this is a long i don't i

364
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:14,720
don't know when i read it but it was a

365
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:17,279
mix of being let down i mean anybody i

366
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:18,720
could look at the photographs and go

367
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:20,639
these are models i built models as a kid

368
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:22,959
not ufo models but it seems pretty

369
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:24,639
obvious to me that these are fake photos

370
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,639
and everything but when i got your book

371
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:28,320
it was amazing to me

372
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:30,639
all the work that you did to prove that

373
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:33,360
this was all con

374
00:13:39,269 --> 00:13:36,959
oh thank you uh yeah that book evolved

375
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:39,279
quite by accident um

376
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:41,680
and i'm again i thank you for bringing

377
00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:44,079
up that point uh because what happened

378
00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:46,800
is when wendell was defensive and here

379
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:49,199
i'm i'm in high school and i know him

380
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:51,680
i'm starting to write a magazine column

381
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:55,279
in the old saga ufo uh report magazine

382
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:58,000
called ufo photo file and hayden hughes

383
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:00,720
used to write it and i took it over with

384
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,040
bill spaulding and we use computers to

385
00:14:07,189 --> 00:14:05,279
look at computer imagery and of course i

386
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:07,199
live near nasa ames

387
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,120
and i knew dr andrew grotowski dr

388
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:11,279
richard haynes knew everybody again and

389
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,000
they knew my age one of the few people

390
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:16,399
and what happened was um

391
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:18,160
when i started looking at different

392
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,079
versions of the meyer photos that were

393
00:14:25,509 --> 00:14:22,480
coming from europe that were uncropped

394
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:25,519
unedited they weren't color corrected

395
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:26,480
uh

396
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:28,720
photos from natural binders i started to

397
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:31,680
see problems and one of the things that

398
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:34,079
you can see if you look at the original

399
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:36,959
ufo contact from the pleiades books and

400
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:39,199
it was ray stanford of all people who

401
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,519
first told me about this he deserves

402
00:14:45,990 --> 00:14:44,079
credit for it i mentioned it in the book

403
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,000
if you look at the big photos you know

404
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:48,079
in their big photo book if you look very

405
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:49,440
carefully you'll see these little round

406
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:51,440
dots in the background and those are

407
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:52,800
balloons

408
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:55,440
and the question is what are those

409
00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:58,560
balloons doing back there either they're

410
00:15:01,670 --> 00:15:00,320
very large balloons that happen to be

411
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:01,680
there at the right time the right place

412
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:03,920
while the pleiadians are there too

413
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,160
or they're part of the uh you know hoax

414
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:10,000
and what i found out when i went there

415
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:11,600
is that helium is imported in

416
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:14,399
switzerland 100 percent it is

417
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:15,440
they don't

418
00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:20,079
and there's only one place it comes into

419
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:22,880
pan gas pond gas p-a-m-g-a-s they're in

420
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:24,000
zurich and then of course it's

421
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,440
distributed from zurich out to nearby um

422
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:29,680
vinta tour which is their hindustan roti

423
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:31,440
and vets khan and so on

424
00:15:34,389 --> 00:15:32,639
and it

425
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:34,399
they have all these little festivals

426
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:35,680
going on we were able to get it quite

427
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,639
easily

428
00:15:41,269 --> 00:15:38,639
and of course everyone recognized them

429
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,279
our photos and

430
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:43,360
he's become a bit of a tourist thing up

431
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:46,800
there so what happened is i simply wrote

432
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:49,279
an article about the meyer case it was

433
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:52,079
the lead cover story of uh sauga ufo

434
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:54,399
report i think in december of 1980 i

435
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:56,399
might have the uh year an issue wrong

436
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:58,560
but it was the main story and at that

437
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:59,440
point

438
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:00,560
um

439
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:03,199
people began to hate me uh suddenly i

440
00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:05,759
was a cia dis info agent suddenly i was

441
00:16:10,949 --> 00:16:07,920
a bunker i know something about that

442
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,959
i've been called a disinformation agent

443
00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:12,720
and i'm just trying to throw people off

444
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:14,800
the trail and you know yeah

445
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:17,199
if they can't argue with the messenger

446
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,040
and the evidence the messenger presents

447
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:21,120
then they try to kill the messenger and

448
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:22,880
i'm sure you've gotten it 10 times worse

449
00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:24,160
than me

450
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:26,079
well yeah i mean even these ridiculous

451
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:28,000
you know death threats you get which uh

452
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:29,360
you know i just turn them over to the

453
00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:32,240
right people like the police but uh the

454
00:16:34,829 --> 00:16:33,279
um

455
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:34,839
uh

456
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:38,320
so right away this is a red flag because

457
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,199
you know here i am exposing one case a

458
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:43,600
single case it's an elaborate hoax he's

459
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:45,920
done it many times but it's a hoax it's

460
00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:47,440
a case

461
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:49,120
as a hoax

462
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,560
and then everybody thinks i'm saying

463
00:16:54,150 --> 00:16:52,399
there's no ufos no life anywhere in the

464
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:54,160
universe we're it folks take it or leave

465
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:55,839
it no where the hell does any of that

466
00:17:00,870 --> 00:16:57,839
have to do with anything nothing

467
00:17:02,389 --> 00:17:00,880
but people are that much of being stupid

468
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:02,399
about this because they don't think

469
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:05,520
critically they they're letting emotions

470
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:06,880
lead them around

471
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:10,240
and so this is what i've noticed and

472
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:12,640
so i wrote this article and then all of

473
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:14,959
a sudden after it comes out um

474
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:17,439
i get a phone call from genesis you know

475
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,160
they were mad wendell was mad

476
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:22,319
and what happened is they started they

477
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,400
came to the bay area uh in a thing

478
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:26,640
called ufo 80 conference

479
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:29,200
and we went there was you know close by

480
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,320
and i met

481
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:32,400
jim de la tozo for the first time

482
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:34,960
wendell was there so on

483
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:38,160
and then um we got into it there as i

484
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:39,679
wrote in the book

485
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:42,240
and then i wrote uh i added to this

486
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:44,080
paper i had written

487
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:48,080
and uh then i met marcelo vogel uh i

488
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:49,360
actually met him when i wrote the

489
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:51,919
original expose paper he actually showed

490
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:54,080
me a piece of the metal from the meyer

491
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:55,360
spacecraft

492
00:17:58,630 --> 00:17:56,880
uh

493
00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:58,640
it's obvious to me why it later

494
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:01,440
disappeared so to speak because

495
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:03,919
this scientist who wasn't a

496
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:05,760
metallurgist he was a chemist so he

497
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:07,840
wasn't qualified to do the metal

498
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:10,400
analysis they'd given credit for

499
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:13,200
not only could marco vogel claim he you

500
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:14,880
know could bend metal with his mind it's

501
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:17,679
like powers he was a fraud that way

502
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:19,600
but you know what a little coin purse is

503
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:21,760
that you squeeze with your hand and then

504
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:23,280
you can reach in there and grab a penny

505
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:25,120
or two sure well

506
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:27,200
this is where he kept the meyer samples

507
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,679
i'm not making this up uh when he handed

508
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:32,000
him to me he reaches in his pocket grabs

509
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:33,760
this little coin pouch and i'm thinking

510
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:35,120
he's going to hand me some coins i'm

511
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,880
like i don't know why

512
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:38,640
and then he pulls out this little piece

513
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,559
of metal and says here it is

514
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:42,400
and he says uh meyer's a hoaxer but

515
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:44,160
samyazi is real

516
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:45,600
and i'm like oh god how am i going to

517
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:47,120
record that

518
00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:50,799
so i i i reported it so all of a sudden

519
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:53,520
my article goes to being around 120

520
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:55,600
something pages or whatever

521
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:56,400
and

522
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:58,640
then the genesis people after we met in

523
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:01,200
oakland and got into it they called jim

524
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,160
delato comes out to sunnyvale

525
00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:06,480
uh two weeks later spends all day with

526
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:09,039
us i'll read barbara reed myself

527
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:11,200
we all knew the heinicks

528
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,160
as in dr heineck and um

529
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,160
he tries to convince us to go to his

530
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:18,240
side we recorded the whole thing the

531
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:20,480
verbatim transcript appears in the book

532
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:22,640
and as soon as delato left i could tell

533
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,400
he was lying in the interview i started

534
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:26,320
uh checking what he said and then i

535
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:29,600
reported a retort after every

536
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:31,919
paragraph in the book and suddenly bill

537
00:19:35,350 --> 00:19:33,360
moore he tells me he says you know you

538
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:35,360
have enough material here for a book

539
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:36,880
i'll publish the book for you i'll pay

540
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:39,679
for it uh why don't we do it and that's

541
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:41,760
how the first book the meyer incident

542
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:45,039
came out in high school uh 128 pages or

543
00:19:50,470 --> 00:19:47,600
something it's collector's item today

544
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:50,480
and it sold out um went through a couple

545
00:19:54,470 --> 00:19:53,120
printings and i told bill moore i don't

546
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:54,480
like the book i want to go to

547
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:56,720
switzerland and go to the scene of the

548
00:20:00,630 --> 00:19:59,360
crime so to speak and he said well i'm

549
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:00,640
not going to do that because i'm not

550
00:20:03,029 --> 00:20:01,919
going to pay for that and i wasn't going

551
00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:03,039
to pay for it

552
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:04,960
and i'm uh you know just getting out of

553
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:07,679
high school i've got other things to do

554
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:10,559
but i want to do that and so i had a

555
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:13,840
chance to years later in 91

556
00:20:19,270 --> 00:20:17,200
uh go to switzerland undercover

557
00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:19,280
by then people knew where my stand was

558
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:22,240
and i was able to get a lot more stuff

559
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:24,720
this time i went to switzerland

560
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:27,360
undercover that's what the book is about

561
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:29,919
and i was given original meyer evidence

562
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:30,720
that

563
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:32,880
was from the 70s

564
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:35,120
given by meyer himself his handwriting's

565
00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:36,320
on the back of the

566
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,520
photos

567
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:39,600
got all that stuff posed as a believer

568
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:41,280
named steve thomas

569
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:43,360
who went there uh to get evidence

570
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:45,440
against count korff they cooperated not

571
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:47,120
knowing it was really me

572
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,640
that's amazing yeah

573
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:50,480
that is an amazing part of the story

574
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:52,960
that i think is

575
00:20:56,149 --> 00:20:54,159
i just want to say that you have

576
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:56,159
tremendous balls let's just leave it at

577
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:57,679
that because i don't think that i would

578
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:58,720
have

579
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:00,720
i've had a few problems because even

580
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:03,280
just audio wise like i've tried to make

581
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:05,840
phone calls as someone else and things

582
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:07,360
and and people

583
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:09,120
sort of pick up on it you know like

584
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:10,559
maybe i'm just not good at undercover

585
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:12,320
work but that's amazing that you went

586
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:13,440
there

587
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:16,400
and did that and they didn't catch on or

588
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:19,520
anything and they're giving you evidence

589
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:21,200
yeah i'd like to explain how that

590
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:23,919
happened because i get falsely accused

591
00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:26,320
and mikey hornis one of the people who

592
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:29,120
likes to spread this lie i'll be blunt

593
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,720
um i didn't go there to play games and

594
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:34,799
be melodramatic and

595
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:37,520
sell a book and all that stuff uh i knew

596
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:39,600
i would write up whatever i found i had

597
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,520
no idea what i was gonna find i just

598
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:43,440
know i was gonna go there

599
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:44,960
had an opportunity to go there

600
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:46,799
undercover secretly without their

601
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:48,240
knowledge

602
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:50,720
which means that the barriers that would

603
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:52,400
be there if they're not telling the

604
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:53,919
truth or they're holding something

605
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:55,200
hiding something

606
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:56,720
they wouldn't be there theoretically as

607
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:59,200
opposed to coming in scalp gorf and i

608
00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:00,960
couldn't go as kalkorf i tried to go

609
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,400
through the front door through window

610
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:04,880
that that was as good as it got

611
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:06,960
um but it wouldn't work because they

612
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,360
were not honest people they were pulling

613
00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:11,520
a scam consumer fraud is what it is when

614
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:12,640
you

615
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:14,799
knowingly sell something that is not

616
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:16,000
what you

617
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,559
represented to be by choice regardless

618
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:20,559
of the subject that is by law consumer

619
00:22:24,549 --> 00:22:23,039
fraud when you are charging money for it

620
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:24,559
it's illegal to tell someone you're a

621
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:26,640
psychic in charge of money and give them

622
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,640
a reading and all that because you're

623
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:30,320
selling something that isn't true in

624
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:33,360
this case it's uh fake ufo photos

625
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,720
so

626
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:36,159
i've always said this is theft by

627
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:37,919
deception and it should be considered a

628
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,000
crime especially if you know that it's

629
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:42,960
fake you know well well it actually is a

630
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:45,120
crime there's no question what has not

631
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:47,280
happened is people have not been

632
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:49,039
prosecuted

633
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:51,360
as they should even though the laws in

634
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:54,559
the u.s even in liberal california

635
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:56,880
are very clear this is consumer front

636
00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:58,640
and all it's going to take is for some

637
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:01,280
formal complaint at some point to happen

638
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:03,679
and i think that's going to happen

639
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:05,600
uh because i think things are reaching a

640
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,039
critical mass people are investing now

641
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:11,039
like in ttsa and they're getting ripped

642
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,559
off and we can come back to that a

643
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:14,720
little bit later but back to the meijer

644
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:16,080
thing

645
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:17,840
what happened is i knew i couldn't go as

646
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:20,400
kalkwarf through the front door

647
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:22,799
i wanted to go there and you know do the

648
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:25,600
investigation i always wanted to do

649
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:27,360
and so i thought well how do i get in

650
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:28,480
there

651
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:30,720
and i knew they hated me because i had

652
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:33,200
uh you know had my run-ins with them

653
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:35,360
and i thought okay what i'll do is i'll

654
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:37,360
pretend to be a believer they love

655
00:23:41,909 --> 00:23:39,440
believers and of course i'll give them

656
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:41,919
money they love money and i was very

657
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:43,840
that's always that's one way to convince

658
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:44,799
them yeah

659
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,559
oh yeah i mean i threw the swiss francs

660
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:48,480
around rather liberally

661
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:51,760
and um what uh and then i said you know

662
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:53,919
um there is this bastard back in the us

663
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:56,640
and kalkwarf uh my name is steve thomas

664
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:58,320
i can go back and get him for you just

665
00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:00,240
give me all your best stuff against him

666
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:02,240
i'll go do the stuff you guys can i'm

667
00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:04,480
american you guys aren't nobody will

668
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:05,919
know you know

669
00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:07,520
uh you guys fingerprints won't even be

670
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:08,720
there you know

671
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:11,120
and uh they they loved it and um they

672
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:13,760
invited me to join their cult

673
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:17,039
and uh what happened is uh

674
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:19,919
i had established contact secretly

675
00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:21,919
with the jakob family

676
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:24,240
and they were the people who knew meyer

677
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:27,039
and han jiakov was a swiss ufo

678
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:29,600
researcher of long standing

679
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:31,679
and he was the official keeper of the

680
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:33,440
meyer photos he

681
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:36,080
uh went out on some of the contacts and

682
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:38,880
all that stuff appears in uh some of the

683
00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:41,120
photos that meyer took which were double

684
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:43,440
exposures where he's standing there in

685
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:45,520
the photo and the ufo appears above

686
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:47,600
their head and i talked to everybody who

687
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:49,440
was there that day

688
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:50,880
there was no ufo there was double

689
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:52,880
exposure you can clearly see it is in

690
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:55,279
these original photos

691
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:58,000
and so what happened is um

692
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:01,039
i stayed with the yonko family secretly

693
00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:03,679
and uh was going up to the minor cold

694
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:05,440
all the time we went out to the same

695
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:08,080
locations we could walk to many of them

696
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,480
uh i was surprised how close everything

697
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:12,720
was within walking distance

698
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:15,200
if you look at the way the meijer photos

699
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:17,360
are deceptively marketed especially in

700
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:19,039
the photo journals you think that these

701
00:25:23,350 --> 00:25:21,200
contacts occurred all over different

702
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,360
parts of switzerland meaning you know

703
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:25,440
it's a ways away from one location to

704
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,320
the other

705
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:28,640
no in fact we could there were three or

706
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:31,200
four locations where different contacts

707
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:33,200
and photos had been faked

708
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:34,640
that are in the book where we went to

709
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:36,960
those locations there's a particular

710
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:40,080
photo taken at until where he supposedly

711
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:43,120
went up you know uh three ten thousand

712
00:25:45,909 --> 00:25:44,720
feet in the air for the first time on

713
00:25:48,789 --> 00:25:45,919
the board ship

714
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:48,799
for the purpose of taking photos from

715
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:51,600
inside the palladian spaceship and i

716
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:53,279
found that location and it's a little

717
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:54,720
hill

718
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:56,960
overlooking a house with a bench that

719
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:58,559
you can sit there

720
00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:00,400
and all we did is hold the model out

721
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:02,559
above the uh lake fefecon in the

722
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:03,760
background

723
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:05,520
just on our hand i had tina layton who

724
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:07,120
was with me uh she worked at lawrence

725
00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:08,480
berkeley lab i worked at lawrence

726
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:12,159
livermore lab that's how we met and um

727
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:14,000
she held the model out i photographed it

728
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:16,159
from the same angle meyer used and then

729
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:18,720
it looks using this forced perspective

730
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:19,600
trick

731
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:21,760
where a small object close to the camera

732
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:23,520
looks bigger than it really is that's

733
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:25,520
how we fake the photo and there's no

734
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:27,120
question they're fakes you can line up

735
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:29,039
the lake everything and i'll tell you

736
00:26:33,269 --> 00:26:31,600
the one location which of course is the

737
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:33,279
most controversial one

738
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:34,559
in the series but it was the most

739
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:37,520
interesting was the location

740
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:41,679
uh at uh where the tree had disappeared

741
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:44,480
uh that later you know was zapped back

742
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:47,840
in time if you know that case uh you may

743
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:51,039
remember this uh ufo sequence where the

744
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:52,640
meyer took these photos of this thing

745
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:54,240
going around the tree

746
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:56,960
well i went to that location the tree

747
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:58,559
has never been there

748
00:27:03,510 --> 00:26:59,360
and

749
00:27:05,909 --> 00:27:03,520
the whis family which is which is the

750
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:05,919
farm family i i was the first one to

751
00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:07,600
name them

752
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:09,279
and they told me point blank there's

753
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:11,279
never been a tree there yes they know

754
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:12,960
about this stupid claim because people

755
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:14,799
once in a while knock on their door and

756
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:16,880
say where's the tree you know

757
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:18,080
and uh

758
00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:19,520
i saw that

759
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:22,240
yeah and i saw family photos from their

760
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:24,480
albums over the years back in the 70s

761
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:26,640
black and whites there's no tree there

762
00:27:29,909 --> 00:27:29,120
and they do grow corn there

763
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:29,919
and

764
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:32,480
the reason that the lake moved so to

765
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,120
speak and the tree moved in the photos

766
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:37,600
is because in some of the photos there's

767
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:40,000
a road that's really close by on the

768
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:41,679
highway that goes up there that goes up

769
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:43,760
the mountain to the minor place

770
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:46,000
and you can be seen from that road with

771
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:48,000
a little ufo model or whatever you're

772
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:49,039
doing

773
00:27:52,549 --> 00:27:51,360
so what meyer had to do and you can only

774
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:52,559
figure this out by going to that

775
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,679
location

776
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:55,840
and we did that with models is you have

777
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:57,840
to go further up the hill towards the

778
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:58,720
bench

779
00:28:01,909 --> 00:28:00,080
and that's where you can sit down

780
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:01,919
there's a couple of them there and enjoy

781
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:04,640
the view panoramic view of lake fefecon

782
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:06,720
and then he set up the tree and and shot

783
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:08,480
down into the valley and

784
00:28:12,549 --> 00:28:10,080
from this hill and that's how we faked

785
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:12,559
those photos and we know that because

786
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:15,360
the clouds in the background change

787
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:16,559
so fast

788
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:18,159
that you can tell these were taken over

789
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:20,720
a period of uh several minutes not just

790
00:28:25,029 --> 00:28:22,799
you know 30 seconds or a minute like he

791
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:25,039
claimed that's just not true clouds

792
00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:27,279
don't move that fast in that area

793
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:29,760
um you know and then of course

794
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:31,520
with the tree disappearing there is no

795
00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:33,520
tree to the left of those hills that's

796
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:35,520
an entirely different direction that you

797
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:37,120
can still see today but you have to go

798
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:39,279
there to see it in fact now

799
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:41,440
actually uh i did this a couple years

800
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:44,080
ago in europe you can use google earth

801
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:45,840
to zoom down to these locations and

802
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:48,559
easily destroy the meyer photos

803
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,320
yeah i've done some google earthing

804
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:52,720
around that location and and i was kind

805
00:28:56,830 --> 00:28:55,200
of surprised at how similar some of

806
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:56,840
those scenes still

807
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,200
look into some of the meijer photos it's

808
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:01,200
like the land of time for god or

809
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,120
something you know when i had michael

810
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:05,200
horn on my show i really pressed him on

811
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:07,760
this one point which was that people

812
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:10,559
have identified the trashcan lid that

813
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:13,440
comprise the models and in defense of

814
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:15,919
that there's some ridiculous explanation

815
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:17,840
that they came out with that the aliens

816
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:19,919
tried to inspire us

817
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:22,080
with their beam ship designs and somehow

818
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:24,240
we misinterpreted that and

819
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:27,120
made them into trashcan lids or

820
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:29,360
something crazy like that and michael

821
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:31,679
one really did not explain that he just

822
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:34,080
kind of you know blew off because i have

823
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,360
a screenshot of them explaining why the

824
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:39,520
trash can you know why someone is able

825
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:41,840
to say it's this exact manufactured

826
00:29:46,149 --> 00:29:43,760
trash can lid

827
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:46,159
yeah because and i've seen it in many

828
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:47,840
countries uh

829
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:50,880
it's standard it's the standard

830
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,520
everybody uses it's it's very iconic in

831
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:55,600
europe in fact it's the standard they

832
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:58,399
use in india it comes in different sizes

833
00:30:01,909 --> 00:30:00,559
that's a very popular size

834
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:01,919
um

835
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:03,360
you know

836
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:05,120
some of the explanations that have come

837
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:06,000
up

838
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:08,720
with meyer unquestionably have been made

839
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:11,679
up on the fly and and i can prove that

840
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:14,159
he's just outright lied

841
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:16,559
for example um i don't know if you

842
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:19,200
remember this uh it was short-lived

843
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:22,559
but back in prague years ago uh when i

844
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:24,880
was first doing the uh original uh

845
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,679
council corner show on exxon i announced

846
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:29,679
that michael horn and i were going to

847
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:32,320
work on a dvd project

848
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:35,200
and i knew michael horn wasn't going to

849
00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:37,120
really do that project with me i knew he

850
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,559
was lying

851
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:40,559
and michael horn for the record this is

852
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:43,600
my constitutionally protected opinion

853
00:30:48,549 --> 00:30:46,240
uh i believe is one of the most based on

854
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:48,559
my direct interactions with him one of

855
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:50,960
the most dishonest

856
00:30:56,789 --> 00:30:54,720
deceptive fraudulent ufo promoters out

857
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:56,799
there and he absolutely is the right

858
00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,960
person to promote the billy meyer fraud

859
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:01,360
because that's what he does

860
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:03,440
the guy has no ethics no morals no

861
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:04,880
scruples

862
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:07,200
the last debate i had with him on the

863
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:10,640
exo show which rob mcconnell hosted was

864
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:12,960
stopped halfway through that show

865
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:15,200
because he couldn't control his temper

866
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:17,840
couldn't control his behavior yeah i i

867
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:19,679
just interviewed him and he really lost

868
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:21,679
it a few times and i had i had to back

869
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:23,919
myself up and say look let's both take a

870
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:26,480
step back calm down and we'll continue

871
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:27,679
because

872
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,919
it's kind of like when you confront him

873
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:31,679
with uh with

874
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:34,000
evidence he gets upset yeah he would get

875
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:37,120
upset and but i will i will say this

876
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:39,360
in defense of him the the one thing i'll

877
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:41,519
say in defense of him is that

878
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,159
he is probably one of the only people

879
00:31:48,389 --> 00:31:46,559
who had the courage to come on my show

880
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:48,399
and at least answer the questions did he

881
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:51,200
answer them to my satisfaction no

882
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:53,679
and uh you know and he would talk for 20

883
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:56,000
minutes when i asked one question which

884
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:57,840
is difficult but

885
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:59,360
at least he would come on my show and

886
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:01,360
and now he wants to do a part two and

887
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:03,679
i'm kind of like i i kind of got what i

888
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:05,600
needed you know i kind of the first

889
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:07,360
interview was enough you know there's

890
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:09,760
not much more there to talk about

891
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:12,320
we just agree to disagree you know

892
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,320
yeah then if you've been able to wrap it

893
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:16,559
up in only one show i congratulate you

894
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:19,440
and um you're certainly familiar with

895
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:21,760
the case uh most of the media people

896
00:32:25,029 --> 00:32:23,360
i've talked to over the years don't

897
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:25,039
really know the meyer case so michael's

898
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:27,279
able to play all kinds of games well you

899
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:28,960
know i have to say i kind of grew up

900
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:31,279
with that and uh one of the first ufo

901
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:33,519
books i've ever got i ever got was that

902
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:35,120
one of their books

903
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:36,480
and uh

904
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:38,720
even as a child though getting this book

905
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:41,039
i remember going these photos don't look

906
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:43,360
real you know and later when i got older

907
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:45,519
i looked into it again and then once in

908
00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:47,039
a while you're going down these rabbit

909
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:48,880
holes and here comes a video from

910
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:51,039
michael horn or someone else or these i

911
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:52,559
even yeah i watched michael horn's

912
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:54,320
documentaries and

913
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:56,799
i just disagreed with him you know but

914
00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:59,200
i'm very familiar with a lot of the

915
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:02,240
i even made some models of my own and

916
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:04,960
put them on fishing string and i found a

917
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,200
lot of different methods that i borrowed

918
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:09,200
from magic tricks believe it or not to

919
00:33:12,310 --> 00:33:11,039
make them even better probably than some

920
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:12,320
of the billy myers people don't know

921
00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:14,000
this but if you take fishing string and

922
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:17,120
you dot it in black with a marker it

923
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:19,200
breaks up the line and it's much much

924
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:20,960
harder to detect it

925
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:23,200
in the in the finished photos and a lot

926
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,799
of different i did a lot of stuff like

927
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:26,480
that on this case to kind of convince

928
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:28,960
myself am i right that it's fake but i

929
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:31,200
just kept coming back to occam's razor

930
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:32,960
what is the most likely

931
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:34,960
explanation that this guy's had lifelong

932
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:37,679
contact with aliens and only him and

933
00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:39,120
another problem i have with michael horn

934
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:40,159
is that

935
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,240
he kind of calls everyone else as a

936
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:44,720
fraud except billy meyer billy murray is

937
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:46,799
the only genuine case everyone else is a

938
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:49,600
fraud and that's problematic because

939
00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:52,640
it's this it's ju that is an earmark of

940
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:54,880
a cult we're the only truth we're the

941
00:33:57,590 --> 00:33:55,919
only people that could give you the

942
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:57,600
truth everyone else is a fake and a

943
00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:59,360
fraud and a liar and you'll you won't

944
00:34:02,950 --> 00:34:01,360
get the truth from them but we have it

945
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:02,960
you know

946
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:04,799
yeah and uh let me share with you two

947
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:07,120
real examples of and and these are smoky

948
00:34:10,629 --> 00:34:08,879
gun examples of how they just make up

949
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:10,639
stuff when they're busted

950
00:34:15,510 --> 00:34:13,359
uh back to the dvd project uh i knew

951
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:15,520
michael warren was never gonna really do

952
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:19,040
this the idea was and it was my idea

953
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:22,960
was to do one two dvds uh one dvd would

954
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:25,359
be my best case against the meyer case

955
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:27,200
whatever the evidence was it's not just

956
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:28,720
me it's other people

957
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:30,560
the best evidence on one dvd and then

958
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:32,320
the best evidence for it on the other

959
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:35,119
left by michael whatever he wants

960
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:37,040
and i thought honestly this was a

961
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:38,720
win-win because no matter what you

962
00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:41,280
believe about the case you've got the

963
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:43,359
prosecution and the defense this is

964
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:45,760
their best evidence and i still would do

965
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:47,280
this today

966
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:49,679
i remember when this when this happened

967
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:52,159
and i do i vaguely recall that he claims

968
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:54,560
that aliens warned him not to do it or

969
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:55,679
something like that that you were going

970
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:58,480
to gotcha him or something yeah

971
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,800
yeah and this this is where he just made

972
00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:02,480
it up because

973
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:03,520
um

974
00:35:08,069 --> 00:35:05,760
i told my people and i can name them

975
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:08,079
i'll do it right now

976
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:10,560
phil langdon for example i said okay we

977
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:12,320
know what he's going to do he's going to

978
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:14,560
move the goal post we don't know exactly

979
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:16,800
what yet but there's no way he's going

980
00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:19,040
to do this what we have to do in our end

981
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:20,800
is completely document that we're not

982
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,800
going to do anything but what we said

983
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:25,200
and we really wanted to do this because

984
00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:26,880
i was looking forward to saying this is

985
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:29,680
this is all i can say i'm done

986
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:31,520
have a nice day because i'm tired of

987
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,280
this i got a life

988
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:35,760
and so um

989
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,160
what we did is we duplicated every

990
00:35:43,349 --> 00:35:40,880
single major meyer photo

991
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:43,359
that is out there including the wedding

992
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:44,800
cake photos

993
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:47,920
uh we even put together a how to build

994
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:50,720
your own pleiadian fake ships and we

995
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:52,880
we're going to call this fake ships of

996
00:35:57,270 --> 00:35:56,000
the pleiades the silly meyer story

997
00:35:59,349 --> 00:35:57,280
okay

998
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:59,359
and and we had another working title

999
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:01,200
light yarns

1000
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:02,800
fake ships of the pleiades of silly mars

1001
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:04,880
story it's too long of a title

1002
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:08,079
and so what happened is uh we duplicated

1003
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:11,040
everything including the uh ufo in front

1004
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:12,560
of the tree where the sun is bouncing

1005
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:14,240
off of it all that

1006
00:36:18,150 --> 00:36:16,720
and um we're done and i contacted

1007
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,160
michael and i said okay michael we're

1008
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:20,880
ready to go waiting for your stuff so i

1009
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:23,440
can put together the master images send

1010
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:24,800
them to you

1011
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:26,720
so you know we can start putting this

1012
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:28,240
together because he knows how to make a

1013
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:29,520
dvd

1014
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:31,680
and uh then he says well let me check

1015
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:33,359
with billy meyer one more time yeah you

1016
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:35,920
do that okay so billy meyer goes off and

1017
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:36,720
he

1018
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:46,720
you know doing whatever ins make up

1019
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:49,200
whatever you want and none of it's true

1020
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,359
and then when he comes back and he says

1021
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:53,440
you know billy meyer has said you're

1022
00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:54,960
going to do this you're going to do this

1023
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:56,800
and they've warned him about you and i'm

1024
00:37:02,470 --> 00:36:59,200
just like yeah right whatever go back to

1025
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:02,480
smoking whatever it's all [\h__\h] so um

1026
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:04,240
it never happened you can blame mikey

1027
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:06,640
for it and if mikey disagrees with this

1028
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:09,200
and wants to lie and say i'm not telling

1029
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:11,119
the truth he can sue me for life of

1030
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:12,960
slander defamation which he won't

1031
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:14,800
because he can't afford to go under oath

1032
00:37:20,069 --> 00:37:17,359
or penalty of perjury and i would still

1033
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:20,079
do this video with him today or dvd

1034
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:23,119
because i've got nothing to hide he does

1035
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:25,359
so that was one example let me give you

1036
00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:27,599
another one that happened because of the

1037
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:29,920
publication of the book spacious of the

1038
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,079
pleiades the billy meyer story

1039
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:34,240
that book was the first one to publish

1040
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,640
the dinosaur time travel photos they had

1041
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:38,640
never been public before

1042
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:41,119
i came back with those photos that meyer

1043
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:43,760
himself had given the jakob family and

1044
00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:46,800
again meyer's writing is on the back of

1045
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:48,880
the several of these pictures

1046
00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:50,400
so we published them

1047
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:52,079
and then of course they were shocked to

1048
00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:54,480
find out it was really me there was no

1049
00:37:58,470 --> 00:37:56,720
steve thomas they were really pissed

1050
00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:58,480
and uh first they said i wasn't there

1051
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:01,359
they lied then they saw the book

1052
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:04,160
couldn't argue with the fact i was there

1053
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:05,599
and then all of a sudden meyer has a

1054
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:07,920
contact with sannyasi and she says well

1055
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,839
we got some bad news for you

1056
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:11,680
you know you were sick and

1057
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:13,680
those time travel photos their hoaxes

1058
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:15,520
the men in black switched them on you

1059
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:17,440
set you up sorry about that we didn't

1060
00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:18,880
want to tell you

1061
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:20,640
they literally made up that contact to

1062
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,760
explain

1063
00:38:26,310 --> 00:38:23,760
how these dinosaur photos and all these

1064
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:26,320
time travel things could exist when i

1065
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:29,359
had traced them back to nasa images

1066
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:31,200
various shows the dean martin pictures

1067
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:32,640
all that stuff you know

1068
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:34,720
uh just for the benefit of my audience

1069
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:36,640
for those who don't know there there's a

1070
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:38,880
pretty famous picture of a pterodactyl

1071
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:41,680
which it was basically someone took a

1072
00:38:45,829 --> 00:38:43,760
photograph out of a nature book of a

1073
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:45,839
pterodactyl and it can be proven that

1074
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:48,160
this is the same image and this was

1075
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:50,160
supposed to be originally a picture that

1076
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:51,599
billy meyer took when he was time

1077
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:52,720
traveling

1078
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:53,839
and when

1079
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:57,599
when cal gotcha them and said no uh this

1080
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:59,280
is where it came from then they come up

1081
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:01,040
with this explanation

1082
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:03,040
and it's the convenient i call it the

1083
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:05,599
very convenient men in black explanation

1084
00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:07,200
and it's not just billy meyer that uses

1085
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:08,720
this explanation

1086
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:09,599
you know

1087
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:11,760
we have bob lazar and many others like

1088
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:14,240
oh they stole that element 51 back out

1089
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:16,400
of my house or you know yeah it's very

1090
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:18,320
convenient just pull out it's like

1091
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:20,079
everybody goes to the same cosmic con

1092
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:22,400
man school of conning people

1093
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:23,920
and when you really got your back to the

1094
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:25,040
wall what you got to do is you got to

1095
00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:27,119
pull out the men in black and it's their

1096
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:28,320
fault they came and they stole the

1097
00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:30,400
material they they took the good photos

1098
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:32,320
and replaced them with fake ones i

1099
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:34,079
pressed michael horn on this and he says

1100
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:36,480
that those are fakes and frauds and that

1101
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:38,800
they were they were put in to discredit

1102
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:40,640
billy meyer or something like that and

1103
00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:43,520
yes the men in black explanation

1104
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,520
yeah so you know here's two examples

1105
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:48,000
where you can prove in a court of law

1106
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:50,720
easily and by any scientific standard

1107
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:54,079
that these explanations are [\h__\h]

1108
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:57,359
those photos uh came out because i got

1109
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:58,880
them personally from switzerland brought

1110
00:40:02,230 --> 00:40:00,000
them back put them in the book

1111
00:40:04,230 --> 00:40:02,240
prometheus books published that book

1112
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:04,240
and then they had some explaining to do

1113
00:40:08,069 --> 00:40:06,400
they had spin to do so of course they go

1114
00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:08,079
off and come up with a contact that

1115
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:10,720
explains why these photos are hoaxes but

1116
00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:13,200
it's not their fault their hoaxes billy

1117
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:16,640
meyer was host he's that stupid to have

1118
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:18,400
dozens and dozens there were what 70 or

1119
00:40:22,790 --> 00:40:20,960
87 pictures from these stupid things and

1120
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:22,800
they were images collected from all

1121
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:25,119
kinds of different sources from fans and

1122
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:26,880
tv over in europe

1123
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:28,240
went down there

1124
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:30,640
to the station hunted it down all that

1125
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,240
stuff

1126
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:34,560
and i wasn't the only one to find it a

1127
00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:37,280
dean martin fan had recognized that

1128
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:39,520
and i will tell you um

1129
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:42,000
how much of a liar billy meyer was

1130
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:43,119
um

1131
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:46,160
most people have never heard the story

1132
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:47,520
because i've never really shared it in

1133
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:49,760
detail of this the second major trip i

1134
00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:50,880
did

1135
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:53,920
to expose meijer for fox tv for world's

1136
00:40:58,790 --> 00:40:55,920
greatest hoaxes and this was in the late

1137
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:58,800
90s this is years after the uh a couple

1138
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:00,800
years after the meyer expose book had

1139
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,720
come out from prometheus

1140
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:04,640
and what happened is i was working with

1141
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:06,720
bob kiviat

1142
00:41:10,390 --> 00:41:08,400
and i i knew him and he had been

1143
00:41:14,230 --> 00:41:10,400
pitching a show called world's greatest

1144
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:14,240
uh hoaxes uh for years and secrets

1145
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:15,680
finally revealed that was a working

1146
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:16,800
title

1147
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:17,920
it was really going to be world's

1148
00:41:21,589 --> 00:41:19,280
greatest we weren't quite sure what it

1149
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:21,599
was going to be and i said well you know

1150
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:23,920
you got to put billy meyer in there

1151
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:26,720
and i had heard that billy meyer had

1152
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:30,079
gotten pregnant a follower of his uh i

1153
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:32,720
think her name was ava bieri

1154
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:34,720
might not have the right name but a

1155
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:37,440
young woman and it caused a problem with

1156
00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:39,040
meyer's wife of course

1157
00:41:43,829 --> 00:41:42,400
so she had moved out and i had a chance

1158
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:43,839
to meet her

1159
00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:46,160
and talk to her and

1160
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:48,319
lay the evidence out before her if she

1161
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:50,880
was interested against her husband

1162
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:52,400
i assume billy didn't tell her

1163
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:53,599
everything

1164
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:56,079
uh those that's the reports i'd gotten

1165
00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:57,920
from many people in europe that

1166
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:01,280
billy basically considered her uh

1167
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:02,800
he never involved her in the hoax i'll

1168
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:04,480
just put it that way i never found any

1169
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:06,079
evidence of that

1170
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:09,520
so what happens is um we um

1171
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:11,680
before i went under

1172
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:13,440
after fox greenlighted the show they

1173
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:15,200
gave us six weeks to do the whole

1174
00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:19,040
special and i was given a budget to go

1175
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:21,280
over undercover again

1176
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,160
to

1177
00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:24,400
get billy meyer's wife on camera if

1178
00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:26,240
possible if not

1179
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,480
come back with the imagery of the

1180
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:30,240
garbage can lid for the wedding king

1181
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:32,079
photos i promised him i could at least

1182
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:34,240
get that because we had found that

1183
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:35,599
imagery

1184
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:37,680
so what happened is um the phoenix

1185
00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:39,040
lights and these other things were going

1186
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:40,160
on

1187
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:40,960
and

1188
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:45,599
on the warpath against me

1189
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:48,000
and they wanted to do a debate on the

1190
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:49,760
art bell show

1191
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:52,800
about uh billy meyer and phoenix lights

1192
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:54,240
or whatever

1193
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:55,839
and i agreed to be on that show we

1194
00:42:59,589 --> 00:42:58,079
debated delawato and i for three and a

1195
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:59,599
half hours

1196
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,040
it was a live

1197
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:04,079
debate with a credibility poll

1198
00:43:08,309 --> 00:43:06,319
that was a credibility meter that was

1199
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,319
based on audience reactions

1200
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:10,480
by the time the show was done

1201
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:13,280
i won the debate 81 percent to nine

1202
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:15,760
percent for de la tosa nine percent

1203
00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:16,960
undecided

1204
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:19,520
and in that debate de la tusso admitted

1205
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:22,079
uh an art pinned him on it and he agreed

1206
00:43:25,109 --> 00:43:23,040
with me

1207
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:25,119
that de la toso had lied about having a

1208
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:27,760
phd from mcgill university that he had

1209
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:30,960
committed fraud using nasa stationery

1210
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:31,760
uh

1211
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:34,400
with a document that implied that it was

1212
00:43:38,470 --> 00:43:36,720
an endorsement when there wasn't

1213
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:38,480
uh there was other stuff you know in

1214
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:41,040
there people can listen to the tape

1215
00:43:44,950 --> 00:43:42,960
meyer people don't like to talk about it

1216
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:44,960
people who hate me and attack me

1217
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:48,400
i think i'm some crazy ufo evil debunker

1218
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:50,079
see i disinfo

1219
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,680
whatever i don't know i can't relate to

1220
00:43:55,750 --> 00:43:53,280
what they say

1221
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:55,760
you can still find that show on youtube

1222
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:58,240
and it's amazing it's amazing listen to

1223
00:44:01,190 --> 00:43:59,280
that

1224
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:01,200
you should be able to i mean even art

1225
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:03,599
bell who started out against me on the

1226
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,480
show uh we ended up being friends and he

1227
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,480
uh said i scored a knockout blow quote

1228
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:10,640
unquote he said that on the show

1229
00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:12,319
and um

1230
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:14,160
for those who don't know michael horn is

1231
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:16,000
very quick to always

1232
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:19,440
uh say all these image analysts uh

1233
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:21,839
determined the photos are real and what

1234
00:44:25,829 --> 00:44:23,680
he's really saying is jim delatoso

1235
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:25,839
determined the photos are real

1236
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:27,920
and as cal has pointed out the guy had a

1237
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:30,160
fake education i have a background in

1238
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:32,880
computer science and i uh can tell you

1239
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:35,040
that he knows a good deal about

1240
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:37,839
computers but he's not an image analyst

1241
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:40,079
not by any stretch of the imagination

1242
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:40,800
and

1243
00:44:44,790 --> 00:44:42,960
even he's been discredited many many

1244
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:44,800
times his phoenix lights

1245
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,040
if you ask a real image analyst his

1246
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,280
analysis of that is a joke

1247
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,440
and so this is just a source that can't

1248
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:53,280
be trusted you know if you have a guy

1249
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:56,160
who's faking his education who's faking

1250
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:57,440
nasa

1251
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:58,640
involvement

1252
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:00,800
and he says the photos are real i think

1253
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:02,400
you have to consider the source in

1254
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:05,599
fairness to him i you know i i don't

1255
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,440
know what his analysis methods where he

1256
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:09,839
learned them but he did not

1257
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:12,160
he's just not a valid image analyst that

1258
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:15,280
you should trust when he says something

1259
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,280
yeah it's uh there's a good expose of

1260
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:19,599
him and some of the other people he was

1261
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,000
doing stuff with at that time

1262
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:24,560
in the 90s it's a

1263
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:26,800
rather it's it's the main story in the

1264
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:29,040
phoenix new times called the hack and

1265
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:31,520
the quack it's about the phoenix night

1266
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:34,160
uh lights and delitoso and francis

1267
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:35,520
farwood and all that stuff that was

1268
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:36,880
going on

1269
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:39,680
uh at the time and uh it's an expose

1270
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:42,720
written by tony ortega and he verified

1271
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,839
everything

1272
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,520
and i'm quoted in there others are

1273
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:48,000
quoted in there uh there's no question

1274
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:50,720
and in fact what michael does is he you

1275
00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:53,520
know lies about me he says oh calcorphan

1276
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:56,560
admitted liar i'm not an admitted liar

1277
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:59,359
what he's referring to is when i

1278
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:01,280
had said on

1279
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:03,839
jeff renz's show that art bell

1280
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:05,920
was trying to keep me off the air about

1281
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:07,520
the phoenix lights

1282
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:08,560
from a

1283
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:09,839
radio show i was supposed to do in

1284
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:11,280
phoenix

1285
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:13,440
and it turns out that art bell had

1286
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:15,280
contacted that show

1287
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:17,280
but it was jim delatoso who had sent the

1288
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:19,119
facts that

1289
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:20,880
said if you put kalkorf on there i'll

1290
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:21,920
sue you

1291
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:24,560
and the person who told me this uh

1292
00:46:29,589 --> 00:46:27,359
didn't know about de la toso being the

1293
00:46:31,990 --> 00:46:29,599
person who had written the facts

1294
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:32,000
and got the two mixed up and i shared

1295
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:33,920
that information on the news and then

1296
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,160
when art said no it wasn't me

1297
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:38,160
and we found out it was delitosa we had

1298
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:39,839
the two or three page facts it was on

1299
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:41,680
the internet many years ago

1300
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:43,599
then i agreed to go on art show and

1301
00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:45,520
apologize because what i said was not

1302
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:47,680
accurate but as i also said it was jim

1303
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:49,440
delato there's no question and when

1304
00:46:53,349 --> 00:46:50,720
there where there was smoke there was

1305
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:53,359
fire and de la tusso had no right to try

1306
00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:55,040
to keep me off that show

1307
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:56,720
show put me on anyway and said go ahead

1308
00:46:59,349 --> 00:46:58,240
and sue us and of course that didn't

1309
00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:59,359
happen

1310
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:01,920
so um uh that's different than making

1311
00:47:06,150 --> 00:47:03,440
something up in line

1312
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:06,160
and then i went on art's show later for

1313
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:08,880
three and a half hours at his request

1314
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:11,200
debating delatoso and the rest is

1315
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:13,760
history so michael horn if he doesn't

1316
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:16,000
tell you that he's lying as usual and

1317
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:18,160
michael does that

1318
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:20,000
as far as

1319
00:47:24,069 --> 00:47:22,240
the second trip that i have done

1320
00:47:26,549 --> 00:47:24,079
i had a problem on my hands in that i

1321
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:26,559
couldn't go as steve thomas

1322
00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:29,200
uh when i went to steve thomas can you

1323
00:47:32,549 --> 00:47:30,880
tell us who you went as this time

1324
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:32,559
because i think this is an amazing part

1325
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:34,240
of your story

1326
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:36,319
yeah uh and i didn't plan this it just

1327
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:39,359
worked out that way um so here's what we

1328
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:41,599
were really doing and and this is going

1329
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:43,920
to come out in an updated expose on my

1330
00:47:47,589 --> 00:47:45,760
meyer book that is going to be out next

1331
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:47,599
year

1332
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:49,680
but let me i've never talked about this

1333
00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:51,200
publicly

1334
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:54,079
um again the meyer case was only going

1335
00:47:58,630 --> 00:47:56,079
to be covered if

1336
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:58,640
something new or some breakthrough could

1337
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:00,960
occur because we had alien autopsy loch

1338
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:03,200
ness bigfoot all this other good stuff

1339
00:48:07,349 --> 00:48:04,880
to expose

1340
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:07,359
so what's new on meyer well his wife

1341
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:09,359
okay she maybe she knows something the

1342
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:11,440
garbage can lid is there that's the

1343
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:13,359
minimum we got that

1344
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:14,240
all right

1345
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:16,400
so i can't go with steve thomas

1346
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:18,640
and when i had gone as steve thomas one

1347
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,280
of the reasons i had to keep it a secret

1348
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:23,119
is because i was on the

1349
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:25,119
hypercard software development team at

1350
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:27,520
that time at apple polaris

1351
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:31,200
and the main guy on our team

1352
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:33,599
was a guy named ed rosensweig

1353
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:35,599
and he was uh

1354
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,440
in charge of writing the color routines

1355
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:39,760
to convert hypercard from being a black

1356
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,440
and white program so that it could be

1357
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:43,680
color quicktime was a new thing that was

1358
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:46,160
coming up i was part of that effort

1359
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:48,800
and rosensweig owned a new age bookstore

1360
00:48:53,829 --> 00:48:51,359
in uh i think it was sausalito

1361
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,839
south san francisco maybe marin

1362
00:48:58,470 --> 00:48:56,640
and he knew wendell stevens

1363
00:49:00,549 --> 00:48:58,480
and i'm like oh my god i can't tell my

1364
00:49:01,589 --> 00:49:00,559
friends what i'm going to do

1365
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:01,599
because

1366
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:03,760
they know wendell i'm like oh god this

1367
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:05,680
is what are the odds and then here's

1368
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:07,119
where it gets really

1369
00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:09,119
almost paranormal for lack of a better

1370
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,160
term

1371
00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:12,000
our boss

1372
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:13,440
uh

1373
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:14,880
bill duvall

1374
00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:16,960
who ran the hypercar team

1375
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,000
he had moved from sun valley idaho

1376
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:22,079
and in my job interview to be part of

1377
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:23,280
that team

1378
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:25,839
uh he said to me you know i've heard

1379
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:26,880
about you

1380
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:29,920
i there's a guy i know who's into ufos

1381
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:31,920
too he just wrote a book called light

1382
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:35,040
years he's my neighbor gary kinder

1383
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:36,880
i'm like oh my god

1384
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:39,280
all right so now my boss is gary

1385
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:41,760
kinder's neighbor

1386
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:43,680
on the hypercar team

1387
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:45,280
and he has moved from

1388
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:48,079
idaho to silicon valley and ed

1389
00:49:50,950 --> 00:49:49,920
rosensweig is part of the hypercar team

1390
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:50,960
from apple

1391
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:53,440
we're all one group now

1392
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:56,640
and i'm supposed to go undercover

1393
00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:59,760
to blow open the meyer case

1394
00:50:02,630 --> 00:50:00,640
where

1395
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,640
i can't tell my boss why i'm going to

1396
00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:04,559
europe for my vacation

1397
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:07,040
cal never takes a vacation wow

1398
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:08,640
this is how

1399
00:50:13,349 --> 00:50:10,960
secret this whole thing had to be

1400
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:13,359
and my roommate roy neal at apple

1401
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:14,960
clara's at the time

1402
00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:17,359
he's the one who worked with me to make

1403
00:50:22,870 --> 00:50:20,000
the models and test them in the heels

1404
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:22,880
with with the balloons and experiment in

1405
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:24,880
the bay area before we took them to

1406
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:27,040
switzerland and we had held from a guy

1407
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:29,040
named steve horse who made props for

1408
00:50:31,349 --> 00:50:30,559
star trek

1409
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:31,359
yeah

1410
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:32,640
so uh

1411
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:34,480
yeah so all this was going on and this

1412
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:35,920
is why i have the photos in the book of

1413
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:39,359
the models you know that i took with me

1414
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:40,480
okay so

1415
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:42,640
now i'm supposed to go back there

1416
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:44,319
years later and and again the first time

1417
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:46,559
i grew my hair and beard for over a year

1418
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:48,160
about a year and a half without cutting

1419
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:50,480
it people were thinking i was losing my

1420
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:51,520
mind

1421
00:50:54,309 --> 00:50:53,119
but i was trying to hide my face and

1422
00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:54,319
everything so that i wouldn't be

1423
00:50:58,150 --> 00:50:55,520
recognized

1424
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:58,160
i had my pink hyper card shoe laces i

1425
00:51:02,069 --> 00:50:59,760
had my klingon

1426
00:51:03,750 --> 00:51:02,079
star trek new ag type look

1427
00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:03,760
uh there's photos of me on the internet

1428
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:06,559
looking all hippy like

1429
00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:08,800
my steve thomas you know persona

1430
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:10,319
now all these years later i'm going back

1431
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:11,520
there again

1432
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:13,280
i got to get to know meyer's wife

1433
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:14,720
hopefully we'll hit it off i don't know

1434
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:16,400
what she's going to say if she'll even

1435
00:51:20,950 --> 00:51:18,160
talk to me at all can't go with steve

1436
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:20,960
thomas can't grow my beard and hair

1437
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:22,720
so i went the opposite i shaved

1438
00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:24,880
everything off

1439
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:26,079
short

1440
00:51:29,670 --> 00:51:28,079
and i

1441
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,680
decided well

1442
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:31,440
um

1443
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:33,920
i got to come up with a name okay what

1444
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:35,920
name am i going to use and i thought

1445
00:51:41,589 --> 00:51:38,800
well i've i've gotten to know the meyer

1446
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:41,599
cult more since the expose came out

1447
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,680
years ago and they really revere the

1448
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:45,359
name meyer

1449
00:51:49,829 --> 00:51:47,200
which is stupid again it's more evidence

1450
00:51:51,589 --> 00:51:49,839
of being a cult it's like somebody who

1451
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:51,599
names their kid jesus because they

1452
00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:53,680
admire jesus okay fine that doesn't mean

1453
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:55,119
you're jesus

1454
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:58,480
so i thought okay meyer what

1455
00:52:00,390 --> 00:51:59,440
so

1456
00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:00,400
um

1457
00:52:03,910 --> 00:52:02,240
what happened is i didn't expect to get

1458
00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:03,920
my name at all because normally they

1459
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:06,079
don't really pay attention to that

1460
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:07,839
but what happened is a a man named

1461
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:10,160
christian i think fenner was his name

1462
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:12,720
might have the wrong name uh last name

1463
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:14,960
i guess i was told that he's

1464
00:52:19,109 --> 00:52:17,680
at that time he was basically

1465
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:19,119
one of his roles at the cult was to

1466
00:52:23,589 --> 00:52:21,119
monitor what i do

1467
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:23,599
and what happened is he recognized me

1468
00:52:26,950 --> 00:52:25,520
and he said that's kalkoff and here i am

1469
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:26,960
in the minor cult

1470
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:28,319
the second time

1471
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:30,800
and i'm posing as uh

1472
00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:32,960
i made up a name they asked me my name

1473
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:35,359
and i said my name is oscar

1474
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:37,440
they said oscar white

1475
00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:40,400
and i said oscar meyer

1476
00:52:44,230 --> 00:52:43,280
and they're like oh your last name is

1477
00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:44,240
meyer

1478
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:46,400
and they their face lit up you know like

1479
00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:48,480
billy meyer i said no my middle name's

1480
00:52:51,190 --> 00:52:49,760
meyer

1481
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:51,200
and they said what's your last name and

1482
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:52,800
i said wiener

1483
00:52:58,710 --> 00:52:57,680
you know and i speak german so i said

1484
00:53:02,069 --> 00:52:58,720
uh

1485
00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:02,079
you know oscar maya veena

1486
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,319
and there and they just kept focusing on

1487
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:06,720
the middle name meyer and i explained to

1488
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:08,559
him it was spelt differently it wasn't

1489
00:53:12,549 --> 00:53:11,040
m-e-i-r's m-e-y-e-r

1490
00:53:14,309 --> 00:53:12,559
and they had no idea that i was

1491
00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:14,319
referring to the hot dog of course in

1492
00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:15,520
america

1493
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:18,000
and i i did that because i had to have

1494
00:53:22,230 --> 00:53:19,920
some sanity in the middle of this i'm

1495
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:22,240
now busted in this cult

1496
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:24,240
and i remember years ago them telling me

1497
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,160
you know that if i asked him i said what

1498
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:28,319
would you do if someone kalkorf ever

1499
00:53:30,790 --> 00:53:29,359
came here

1500
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:30,800
and they told me they would either never

1501
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:33,440
let me in or never let me leave

1502
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:36,000
and uh whether they mean it literally or

1503
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:37,440
not you'd have to ask the morons who

1504
00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:40,480
said that but here i am now busted and i

1505
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:42,240
gotta find a way to get out of there

1506
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:45,200
because they asked me to go get my id

1507
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:47,280
because i of course didn't have it on me

1508
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:48,720
and there's two other people with me

1509
00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:51,760
undercover at this point in the cult

1510
00:53:56,710 --> 00:53:54,240
and we were posing as three americans

1511
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:56,720
who happen to meet uh

1512
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:58,480
the other two people who were with me

1513
00:54:02,470 --> 00:54:00,720
one was a woman one was a man

1514
00:54:04,710 --> 00:54:02,480
they were posing as a husband and wife

1515
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:04,720
they were part of my undercover team

1516
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:08,000
and we had prepared a plan b a c and a d

1517
00:54:10,710 --> 00:54:09,680
to escape out of there if something went

1518
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:10,720
wrong

1519
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:13,040
and what we were trying to do we already

1520
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:15,680
had the photo of the trash can

1521
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:17,680
what we were trying to do with my hidden

1522
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:19,599
cameras and some of the footage aired in

1523
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:22,079
the fox special it was the first time a

1524
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:23,520
a digital high eight camera had been

1525
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:25,440
used for a fox special

1526
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:28,640
um we're trying to find that trash can

1527
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:29,920
on a

1528
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:33,359
compound

1529
00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:35,200
uh snaking around

1530
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:40,480
and uh we couldn't find it uh the reason

1531
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:42,319
we were looking for it is because when

1532
00:54:46,789 --> 00:54:43,680
they said

1533
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:46,799
that this was inspired by the aliens so

1534
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:48,400
it's okay to have it out here in the

1535
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:50,000
open but there's no connection it

1536
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:52,000
doesn't prove the photos were faked with

1537
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:53,440
the trashcan

1538
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:55,359
you know this [\h__\h] they make up and

1539
00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:58,240
and it makes you think they make it up

1540
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:59,760
with the idea that if someone's stupid

1541
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:01,200
enough to believe it

1542
00:55:05,589 --> 00:55:03,520
keep building them for more money

1543
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:05,599
if they aren't dumb enough to believe it

1544
00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:06,960
then we don't care there's always

1545
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:08,400
someone who will be dumb enough to

1546
00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:09,359
believe it

1547
00:55:14,549 --> 00:55:10,960
so what happened is i was looking for

1548
00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:14,559
the trash can wandering around by myself

1549
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:16,160
pretending i

1550
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:17,920
i'm just walking around i know where i'm

1551
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:20,640
going and familiar with the place

1552
00:55:24,309 --> 00:55:22,960
and i'm just about to walk into billy

1553
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:24,319
myers house

1554
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:25,839
when they stop me

1555
00:55:30,150 --> 00:55:27,920
and that's when

1556
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:30,160
i pretended not to know where i was

1557
00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:32,000
supposed to go and everything then they

1558
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:33,599
guided me back to the area where the

1559
00:55:37,109 --> 00:55:34,799
visitors are

1560
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:37,119
made me sign and my signature's

1561
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:39,040
illegible anyway so i signed my normal

1562
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,160
signature

1563
00:55:44,789 --> 00:55:42,720
and then um when

1564
00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:44,799
christian said

1565
00:55:48,789 --> 00:55:46,799
i think that's kalkorf

1566
00:55:51,109 --> 00:55:48,799
that's when they asked me to get my id

1567
00:55:52,950 --> 00:55:51,119
and at this point um a lady sits down

1568
00:55:54,549 --> 00:55:52,960
next to me and believe it or not her

1569
00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:54,559
name was brune hilda

1570
00:55:58,390 --> 00:55:56,319
and i'm not making it up but it reminds

1571
00:56:00,829 --> 00:55:58,400
me of a fairy tale

1572
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:00,839
and i had sat next to her years ago

1573
00:56:06,230 --> 00:56:04,400
undercover and she looks at me and

1574
00:56:07,510 --> 00:56:06,240
i'm looking at her and i'm thinking boy

1575
00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:07,520
this is this is funny because you have

1576
00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:10,000
no idea who i am but i remember you

1577
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:11,040
and

1578
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:17,040
to say all three names again in case

1579
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:17,920
somebody

1580
00:56:21,510 --> 00:56:20,240
knew what an oscar meyer weiner was

1581
00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:21,520
and

1582
00:56:24,069 --> 00:56:23,200
i said yeah go get my passport no

1583
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:24,079
problem

1584
00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:25,760
so i uh

1585
00:56:29,990 --> 00:56:27,599
left to go get my passport and these two

1586
00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:30,000
goons they start following me and i took

1587
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:31,680
advantage of the fact that the road was

1588
00:56:36,870 --> 00:56:35,040
curved so that when i rounded a corner i

1589
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:36,880
would run a little bit and then slow

1590
00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:37,760
down

1591
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:39,520
so that by the time they got to that

1592
00:56:44,309 --> 00:56:42,240
corner i was much further ahead

1593
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:44,319
and i had made a point to park the car

1594
00:56:48,789 --> 00:56:46,799
our so-called getaway car in a way where

1595
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,799
i could easily get in there and leave so

1596
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:50,240
i told him i have to go to my car get my

1597
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:52,880
passport be right back so i went there

1598
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:53,760
and

1599
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:55,839
i'm in the car at this point

1600
00:56:59,430 --> 00:56:58,000
and i lean over pretending like i'm

1601
00:57:01,750 --> 00:56:59,440
going to get my glove compartment to get

1602
00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:01,760
my passport and i start the engine and

1603
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:03,920
turn around and leave

1604
00:57:09,109 --> 00:57:07,200
now at this point uh they're gone and to

1605
00:57:10,710 --> 00:57:09,119
make sure nobody followed me i threw a

1606
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:10,720
bunch of ninja spikes i'm not making

1607
00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:13,119
this up out the back window

1608
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:14,799
this way they couldn't get in the car

1609
00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:16,319
and follow me on this

1610
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:19,040
road which is narrow down the hill

1611
00:57:21,510 --> 00:57:20,319
because they're going to have a flat

1612
00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:21,520
tire

1613
00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:23,200
but now i have a problem in that two of

1614
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:25,119
my people are there and they had

1615
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:27,119
instructions on how to get out of there

1616
00:57:31,589 --> 00:57:29,839
gracefully if there was a problem

1617
00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:31,599
so what i'm about to share with you now

1618
00:57:34,950 --> 00:57:33,359
is what they told me happened because i

1619
00:57:37,109 --> 00:57:34,960
wasn't there i'm gone

1620
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:37,119
i went to the rendezvous point which was

1621
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:39,040
around a mountain bin

1622
00:57:43,510 --> 00:57:41,760
down a corner or down a hill

1623
00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:43,520
so that you couldn't see it from various

1624
00:57:48,549 --> 00:57:46,240
angles of the cult

1625
00:57:50,950 --> 00:57:48,559
and but you could see it if you had gone

1626
00:57:53,270 --> 00:57:50,960
a certain distance around

1627
00:57:55,630 --> 00:57:53,280
down past this uh the one and only

1628
00:57:57,910 --> 00:57:55,640
restaurant in that small town

1629
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:57,920
industries like maybe eleven hundred

1630
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:59,119
people

1631
00:58:02,710 --> 00:58:00,720
if you're rounded up

1632
00:58:04,710 --> 00:58:02,720
and uh so what happened is they said

1633
00:58:06,829 --> 00:58:04,720
that they came back the guys came back

1634
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:06,839
running and said that is kalkorf he just

1635
00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:09,599
left and they wanted to know what to do

1636
00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:11,040
and um

1637
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:12,880
they said something like find out what

1638
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:14,880
he's doing whatever that means i don't

1639
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:16,720
know how they're going to do that right

1640
00:58:20,950 --> 00:58:18,000
and then

1641
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:20,960
my two people said uh is there a problem

1642
00:58:25,589 --> 00:58:23,760
and they said yes this guy came in and

1643
00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:25,599
they didn't really explain who i was but

1644
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:28,319
they said i'm a troublemaker and he's

1645
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:29,760
here doing something they don't know

1646
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:32,079
what and they said well we'll just come

1647
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:33,760
back tomorrow during the official visit

1648
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:35,520
day

1649
00:58:39,190 --> 00:58:36,720
you know we don't want any problems they

1650
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:39,200
said yeah please do so they left

1651
00:58:43,349 --> 00:58:40,960
and then uh they went to the rendezvous

1652
00:58:44,789 --> 00:58:43,359
point and uh we all got in the car and

1653
00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:44,799
we left

1654
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:46,160
and then um

1655
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:47,280
we uh

1656
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:49,040
went to innsbruck austria because we

1657
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:51,359
were done at that point

1658
00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:52,799
and uh oh

1659
00:58:58,870 --> 00:58:55,520
well at least with the uh meyer cult and

1660
00:59:00,710 --> 00:58:58,880
then the next thing was to um

1661
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:00,720
visit meyer's wife

1662
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:02,880
and we decided we would visit

1663
00:59:07,430 --> 00:59:05,440
the cult first then meyer's wife because

1664
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:07,440
if meyer's wife and i didn't hit it off

1665
00:59:10,950 --> 00:59:09,280
i didn't want her alerting billy meyer

1666
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:10,960
that i was in town

1667
00:59:15,829 --> 00:59:13,280
so what happened is um we worked with a

1668
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:15,839
friend of mine named luke borderline

1669
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:17,920
wonderful researcher

1670
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:21,040
very incredible guy and he knew calliope

1671
00:59:24,069 --> 00:59:21,920
meyer

1672
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:24,079
and he told her i'm not

1673
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:27,040
a bad guy and he said i want to i want

1674
00:59:30,829 --> 00:59:28,720
to come over and meet you

1675
00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:30,839
and he didn't tell her that he brought

1676
00:59:33,910 --> 00:59:32,640
us so

1677
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:33,920
um

1678
00:59:37,829 --> 00:59:36,319
the three of us met calliope meyer at

1679
00:59:40,150 --> 00:59:37,839
her house

1680
00:59:42,390 --> 00:59:40,160
and uh with us was a

1681
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:42,400
a pickup crew from germany we brought in

1682
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:44,640
to film it in addition to the cameras

1683
00:59:48,950 --> 00:59:47,040
and my camera and there's some footage

1684
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:48,960
of this has leaked on the internet

1685
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:51,440
and at this point we had the videotape

1686
00:59:56,309 --> 00:59:53,680
of the dean martin girls who we were

1687
01:00:00,390 --> 00:59:56,319
told were pleiadians and and plearans

1688
01:00:01,750 --> 01:00:00,400
and uh asking it in near uh these alien

1689
01:00:03,829 --> 01:00:01,760
women they were really dancers from the

1690
01:00:05,589 --> 01:00:03,839
dean martin variety show and we had the

1691
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:05,599
tape to prove it

1692
01:00:08,789 --> 01:00:07,440
so

1693
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:08,799
i met

1694
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:10,960
cali opie meyer she was very cautious at

1695
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:11,920
first

1696
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:13,760
and she said she heard the most horrible

1697
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:16,240
things about me from billy meyer

1698
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:17,040
and

1699
01:00:22,870 --> 01:00:21,760
that i was like out to destroy her

1700
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:22,880
husband

1701
01:00:27,910 --> 01:00:25,839
ci disinfo mib guy type

1702
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:27,920
mib type guy all kinds of stuff that's

1703
01:00:32,309 --> 01:00:30,000
not true

1704
01:00:34,710 --> 01:00:32,319
and i said well you know we're here to

1705
01:00:36,710 --> 01:00:34,720
expose the truth and and

1706
01:00:39,990 --> 01:00:36,720
let me show you this tape

1707
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:40,000
so she always thought that billy meyer

1708
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:42,640
at least had some true experiences

1709
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:44,799
he really lied to her to that level

1710
01:00:49,030 --> 01:00:46,079
imagine

1711
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:49,040
you fake ufo contacts

1712
01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:52,000
and you use a ufo hoax to write your own

1713
01:00:56,230 --> 01:00:53,680
religion basically and these messages

1714
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:56,240
are really your spiritual [\h__\h] but

1715
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:57,280
because

1716
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:59,520
you want to fool people and say

1717
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:01,200
these are from space people instead of

1718
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:03,440
i'm just a swiss farmer with an opinion

1719
01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:05,440
follow me give me money

1720
01:01:09,510 --> 01:01:07,440
you fake all this stuff

1721
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:09,520
she saw the tape

1722
01:01:16,309 --> 01:01:13,599
and she was shocked she was oh man

1723
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:16,319
it was like

1724
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:17,280
she was

1725
01:01:21,109 --> 01:01:19,760
heartbroken because she realized at that

1726
01:01:23,109 --> 01:01:21,119
point

1727
01:01:24,789 --> 01:01:23,119
and that's what she said on the fox

1728
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:24,799
special when she holds up my book and

1729
01:01:29,510 --> 01:01:26,960
says this is the truth

1730
01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:29,520
uh that her husband had lied to her to

1731
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:30,960
that degree

1732
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:33,440
to the point where he's filming [\h__\h] off

1733
01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:35,280
tv

1734
01:01:39,349 --> 01:01:37,680
telling his wife these are aliens

1735
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:39,359
selling it to the public

1736
01:01:42,630 --> 01:01:41,200
but your own wife

1737
01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:42,640
if the public is stupid enough to

1738
01:01:45,030 --> 01:01:44,000
believe it

1739
01:01:48,789 --> 01:01:45,040
okay

1740
01:01:50,789 --> 01:01:48,799
mean but your own wife

1741
01:01:53,589 --> 01:01:50,799
the woman who has bore you three

1742
01:01:55,829 --> 01:01:53,599
children and you name them atlantis

1743
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:55,839
socrates and methuselah

1744
01:02:01,430 --> 01:01:59,200
so gee who's running the roost there

1745
01:02:04,150 --> 01:02:01,440
it was really

1746
01:02:07,029 --> 01:02:04,160
eye-opening moment because i felt for

1747
01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:07,039
her she was clearly an abused woman

1748
01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:09,520
cheated on he's viewed as a god there

1749
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:11,760
she talked about that

1750
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:12,960
and

1751
01:02:17,430 --> 01:02:15,440
they'll do anything he asked them to uh

1752
01:02:20,789 --> 01:02:17,440
and that is scary

1753
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:20,799
um so it was interesting seeing her

1754
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:23,280
and she was not doing well because not

1755
01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:24,160
only

1756
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:25,839
was her life over

1757
01:02:31,270 --> 01:02:28,079
but her daughter their one and only

1758
01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:31,280
daughter had been in an accident and was

1759
01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:32,640
brain damaged

1760
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:34,240
and she was going to devote the rest of

1761
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:36,880
her life to taking care of her daughter

1762
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:39,280
or billy meyer could care less

1763
01:02:42,390 --> 01:02:41,119
wow that's terrible cal

1764
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:42,400
you know we're going to have to take a

1765
01:02:45,829 --> 01:02:43,680
break right here for station

1766
01:02:53,109 --> 01:02:45,839
identification and a few words from our

1767
01:02:53,119 --> 01:02:59,700
this is

1768
01:02:59,710 --> 01:03:06,150
[Music]

1769
01:03:09,750 --> 01:03:07,589
we're back my friends and before the

1770
01:03:11,910 --> 01:03:09,760
break we were talking with kalkorf about

1771
01:03:14,069 --> 01:03:11,920
billy meyer's wife

1772
01:03:15,510 --> 01:03:14,079
let's get back to it

1773
01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:15,520
and it's got to be terrible for her to

1774
01:03:19,029 --> 01:03:17,440
have that illusion shattered if she

1775
01:03:20,950 --> 01:03:19,039
believed that at least

1776
01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:20,960
some of his contacts were real because

1777
01:03:24,150 --> 01:03:22,720
i've heard i've heard several people say

1778
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:24,160
that they believe some of his contacts

1779
01:03:28,069 --> 01:03:26,000
were real but he needed more material so

1780
01:03:30,390 --> 01:03:28,079
he started faking stuff that's another

1781
01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:30,400
explanation some people give for the

1782
01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:32,319
stuff that could be easily proven fake

1783
01:03:38,150 --> 01:03:33,520
you know

1784
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:38,160
have looked very hard at that issue

1785
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:39,440
because uh

1786
01:03:43,270 --> 01:03:41,520
i think it's human nature to want to

1787
01:03:44,549 --> 01:03:43,280
find at least

1788
01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:44,559
one silver

1789
01:03:49,670 --> 01:03:46,960
lining somewhere but to be blunt

1790
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:49,680
everything i have looked at shows no

1791
01:03:53,910 --> 01:03:52,079
evidence of that and

1792
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:53,920
not even a sighting of an airplane that

1793
01:03:58,309 --> 01:03:56,240
he was mistaken on these so-called

1794
01:04:01,349 --> 01:03:58,319
contacts going back when he was five or

1795
01:04:02,870 --> 01:04:01,359
seven with spot that's all retro

1796
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:02,880
revisionist stuff you know there's no

1797
01:04:06,549 --> 01:04:04,480
stuff at that time yeah he used to say

1798
01:04:08,230 --> 01:04:06,559
that he retconned that it's kind of a

1799
01:04:10,470 --> 01:04:08,240
comic book character where they changed

1800
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:10,480
the you know now we're doing a movie so

1801
01:04:14,309 --> 01:04:12,000
we have to have more backstory let's

1802
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:14,319
retcon this and there's there's two

1803
01:04:17,510 --> 01:04:16,000
questions that i'd still like to ask you

1804
01:04:20,069 --> 01:04:17,520
on the billy meyer case and maybe we can

1805
01:04:21,190 --> 01:04:20,079
move on to some other things

1806
01:04:22,789 --> 01:04:21,200
and that is

1807
01:04:24,870 --> 01:04:22,799
the first is that michael horn

1808
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:24,880
constantly cites

1809
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:27,039
these prophecies that billy meyer

1810
01:04:30,549 --> 01:04:28,319
apparently wrote and says that

1811
01:04:32,230 --> 01:04:30,559
copyrights prove that he wrote that

1812
01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:32,240
before but

1813
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:34,319
when he was on my show we learned that

1814
01:04:41,190 --> 01:04:36,880
he has written the equivalent of five

1815
01:04:43,270 --> 01:04:41,200
bibles worth of predictions so my uh

1816
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:43,280
my explanation for if he does get any

1817
01:04:47,109 --> 01:04:45,359
hits is just the same explanation that i

1818
01:04:48,950 --> 01:04:47,119
have for some of the edgar cayce stuff

1819
01:04:51,109 --> 01:04:48,960
is that the volume of if you write

1820
01:04:53,910 --> 01:04:51,119
enough predictions sure you're going to

1821
01:04:56,549 --> 01:04:53,920
get 20 or 30 hits and michael horn gave

1822
01:04:58,789 --> 01:04:56,559
us five or six of them that he says

1823
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:58,799
these are because these were written and

1824
01:05:02,549 --> 01:05:00,240
copyrighted

1825
01:05:04,309 --> 01:05:02,559
but do you have any explanation for why

1826
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:04,319
he does get a few hits on these

1827
01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:05,760
prophecies

1828
01:05:09,829 --> 01:05:07,680
yeah and you know i will tell you that

1829
01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:09,839
we addressed this uh

1830
01:05:14,069 --> 01:05:12,000
this was another thing that i documented

1831
01:05:16,870 --> 01:05:14,079
in the book because it happened uh

1832
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:16,880
basically before i went the first time

1833
01:05:20,829 --> 01:05:18,480
undercover with tina layton to

1834
01:05:25,029 --> 01:05:20,839
switzerland in uh

1835
01:05:27,510 --> 01:05:25,039
1991 um i was briefed very thoroughly by

1836
01:05:29,109 --> 01:05:27,520
a man named stan sweihart who of course

1837
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:29,119
is a swiss

1838
01:05:33,109 --> 01:05:30,640
and uh

1839
01:05:35,190 --> 01:05:33,119
because meyer didn't live in a area that

1840
01:05:40,309 --> 01:05:35,200
was easily accessible and he had to go

1841
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:42,309
i had very detailed information about

1842
01:05:47,270 --> 01:05:44,480
the area and i also wanted to visit many

1843
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:47,280
of the locations of course

1844
01:05:51,589 --> 01:05:48,960
so having this

1845
01:05:53,029 --> 01:05:51,599
kind of detailed commando type plan

1846
01:05:55,670 --> 01:05:53,039
thoroughly familiar with the area with

1847
01:05:58,390 --> 01:05:55,680
these detailed maps

1848
01:06:00,789 --> 01:05:58,400
unfortunately on none of them was

1849
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:00,799
hintish maduroti and that's where mayer

1850
01:06:04,390 --> 01:06:03,200
lived there was maduroti but not hindus

1851
01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:04,400
maduroti

1852
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:06,240
they didn't go down to one fifteen

1853
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,559
hundredth uh

1854
01:06:13,109 --> 01:06:10,720
elevation scale or something just a hair

1855
01:06:16,470 --> 01:06:13,119
above it and the way this flips through

1856
01:06:19,029 --> 01:06:16,480
their maps is you can have a town called

1857
01:06:21,430 --> 01:06:19,039
and hinta means behind like the backside

1858
01:06:24,549 --> 01:06:21,440
of the mountain there's

1859
01:06:26,789 --> 01:06:24,559
an uber that means above or below until

1860
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:26,799
above or below the tree you know

1861
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:28,079
so uh

1862
01:06:30,789 --> 01:06:29,039
hindus

1863
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:30,799
means that meyer lives on the ass side

1864
01:06:34,549 --> 01:06:32,960
or the back side of schmidt

1865
01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:34,559
so a lot of maps aren't going to bother

1866
01:06:39,109 --> 01:06:36,480
putting hinta in there

1867
01:06:41,349 --> 01:06:39,119
so realizing that i need

1868
01:06:44,069 --> 01:06:41,359
that kind of granular detail here i am

1869
01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:44,079
in vetsacon i'm with tina layton and i

1870
01:06:49,190 --> 01:06:46,640
said you know we need a local map that

1871
01:06:50,230 --> 01:06:49,200
maybe we'll have down to 100 meters

1872
01:06:51,910 --> 01:06:50,240
maybe

1873
01:06:55,270 --> 01:06:51,920
so we go into this bookstore called

1874
01:06:56,710 --> 01:06:55,280
schnarviler which was the only bookstore

1875
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:56,720
in the town

1876
01:07:01,270 --> 01:06:58,240
and um

1877
01:07:03,990 --> 01:07:01,280
i said to the clerk i i s who i think

1878
01:07:06,870 --> 01:07:04,000
her name was elsie schroeder as i recall

1879
01:07:08,710 --> 01:07:06,880
i said uh you know i'm looking for uh

1880
01:07:10,950 --> 01:07:08,720
hint of schmidt i'm looking for a map

1881
01:07:13,510 --> 01:07:10,960
that shows me instruments

1882
01:07:15,990 --> 01:07:13,520
where can i get one and she says oh you

1883
01:07:18,150 --> 01:07:16,000
must be here to see mr meyer

1884
01:07:20,470 --> 01:07:18,160
i said well yeah i am actually and i'm

1885
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:20,480
thinking wow what are the odds

1886
01:07:24,870 --> 01:07:22,799
i said i said yes i am i said i'm a big

1887
01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:24,880
fan of his in fact

1888
01:07:29,430 --> 01:07:27,280
i want to i want to buy all the books he

1889
01:07:31,829 --> 01:07:29,440
buys here she says yes he's our big

1890
01:07:33,190 --> 01:07:31,839
customer he has an account here at her

1891
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:33,200
store

1892
01:07:36,870 --> 01:07:35,280
wow that's interesting i'm thinking to

1893
01:07:38,870 --> 01:07:36,880
myself because

1894
01:07:41,430 --> 01:07:38,880
do you have an account at a bookstore do

1895
01:07:43,589 --> 01:07:41,440
you know anybody who does no

1896
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:43,599
no but here's the leader

1897
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:46,079
yeah amazon account that's about it you

1898
01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:48,720
know okay but you know this is a

1899
01:07:51,510 --> 01:07:50,559
bookstore sells books and maps old

1900
01:07:52,870 --> 01:07:51,520
school

1901
01:07:53,589 --> 01:07:52,880
i don't even know if it's still around

1902
01:07:55,430 --> 01:07:53,599
there

1903
01:07:57,589 --> 01:07:55,440
uh and um

1904
01:08:00,309 --> 01:07:57,599
he has an account there

1905
01:08:03,029 --> 01:08:00,319
i said okay i said well um

1906
01:08:05,190 --> 01:08:03,039
uh interesting i said uh she says yes

1907
01:08:07,109 --> 01:08:05,200
and she loved talking about him she says

1908
01:08:09,430 --> 01:08:07,119
i said how do you know how did you know

1909
01:08:11,510 --> 01:08:09,440
i wanted to see mr meyer and she says

1910
01:08:13,029 --> 01:08:11,520
because only people who want to go to

1911
01:08:15,829 --> 01:08:13,039
hindi schmidt

1912
01:08:18,070 --> 01:08:15,839
are here to see mr meyer and she

1913
01:08:20,070 --> 01:08:18,080
explained why where he lives all that

1914
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:20,080
she's very familiar with them she said

1915
01:08:25,110 --> 01:08:22,799
that he and his followers would come

1916
01:08:27,030 --> 01:08:25,120
down every four to six weeks and buy all

1917
01:08:29,269 --> 01:08:27,040
kinds of books and that's why they had

1918
01:08:31,110 --> 01:08:29,279
an account and i said well can you show

1919
01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:31,120
me the books that they buy

1920
01:08:35,749 --> 01:08:33,040
because i want to i want to be just like

1921
01:08:38,390 --> 01:08:35,759
billy i'm such a fanboy

1922
01:08:40,229 --> 01:08:38,400
i want to buy his stuff you know

1923
01:08:43,269 --> 01:08:40,239
so she takes me around and she shows me

1924
01:08:45,990 --> 01:08:43,279
these books on astronomy

1925
01:08:48,070 --> 01:08:46,000
outer space exploration history

1926
01:08:51,349 --> 01:08:48,080
and i'm like oh man this is golden i

1927
01:08:54,550 --> 01:08:51,359
said this woman has no idea that she is

1928
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:54,560
mapping his contact subjects here for me

1929
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:57,040
and uh that's where he gets a lot of his

1930
01:08:59,590 --> 01:08:58,000
stuff

1931
01:09:02,229 --> 01:08:59,600
and

1932
01:09:03,910 --> 01:09:02,239
i say that you have to ignore the

1933
01:09:05,110 --> 01:09:03,920
prophecy stuff because

1934
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:05,120
they've shifted the goalposts they'd

1935
01:09:09,030 --> 01:09:06,880
never used to talk about prophecies

1936
01:09:10,709 --> 01:09:09,040
until the photos started to fall apart

1937
01:09:12,709 --> 01:09:10,719
but the meyer people will tell you and i

1938
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:12,719
quoted them in the book they told steve

1939
01:09:16,870 --> 01:09:14,640
thomas meaning me

1940
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,880
that the photos are not important that

1941
01:09:21,349 --> 01:09:18,880
they're just props to get people to talk

1942
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:21,359
about the messages from the pleiadians

1943
01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:23,040
that's the important stuff and that's

1944
01:09:27,510 --> 01:09:24,960
why this is a cult because these

1945
01:09:29,110 --> 01:09:27,520
messages aren't from any aliens or from

1946
01:09:31,269 --> 01:09:29,120
billy meyer's ego

1947
01:09:33,910 --> 01:09:31,279
and that's where they're from

1948
01:09:35,669 --> 01:09:33,920
yeah and i guess the the last question

1949
01:09:37,669 --> 01:09:35,679
or really something that i would like

1950
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:37,679
for you to explain to my audience is

1951
01:09:41,749 --> 01:09:40,239
this this science fiction

1952
01:09:43,990 --> 01:09:41,759
space sound

1953
01:09:46,950 --> 01:09:44,000
because uh besides computers you know i

1954
01:09:49,269 --> 01:09:46,960
grew up being a musician

1955
01:09:51,110 --> 01:09:49,279
i took piano lessons but later i moved

1956
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:51,120
to synthesizers much more interesting

1957
01:09:55,990 --> 01:09:53,520
and to me that sound that they always

1958
01:09:59,189 --> 01:09:56,000
say can't be identified it just sounds

1959
01:10:01,669 --> 01:09:59,199
like an early analog synthesizer to me

1960
01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:01,679
can you explain to us where you think

1961
01:10:06,950 --> 01:10:03,840
that sound came from

1962
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,960
yes and um i didn't find it uh phil

1963
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:08,640
langdon didn't it was a complete

1964
01:10:12,630 --> 01:10:11,600
accidental discovery and it's amazing

1965
01:10:15,189 --> 01:10:12,640
um

1966
01:10:17,830 --> 01:10:15,199
do you remember the sequence where the

1967
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:17,840
object is is it's from a movie he took

1968
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:19,920
where the object is flying over the pine

1969
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:21,760
tree and the house is in the background

1970
01:10:26,709 --> 01:10:23,760
and it's brushing the top of the pine

1971
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:26,719
tree and and the top of the pine tree is

1972
01:10:31,189 --> 01:10:27,840
moving because it's supposedly a

1973
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:31,199
backwash from the object okay well not

1974
01:10:35,430 --> 01:10:33,840
only is the tree not there again and the

1975
01:10:37,270 --> 01:10:35,440
family who owned the house in the

1976
01:10:38,950 --> 01:10:37,280
background said again there's never been

1977
01:10:40,070 --> 01:10:38,960
a tree there so this is a second

1978
01:10:41,110 --> 01:10:40,080
instance

1979
01:10:42,149 --> 01:10:41,120
but

1980
01:10:45,910 --> 01:10:42,159
um

1981
01:10:47,110 --> 01:10:45,920
it turns out that the fishing line

1982
01:10:48,950 --> 01:10:47,120
that was

1983
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:48,960
uh when we when phil langdon was

1984
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:50,880
recreating that sequence and and i can

1985
01:10:55,030 --> 01:10:53,040
send it to you uh for your show it's

1986
01:10:56,550 --> 01:10:55,040
identical you see him standing there

1987
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:56,560
next to the potted tree then he walks

1988
01:10:59,830 --> 01:10:58,480
out of frame and you see it's identical

1989
01:11:02,310 --> 01:10:59,840
to meyers at that image that he's

1990
01:11:04,950 --> 01:11:02,320
pulling on the fishing line

1991
01:11:07,030 --> 01:11:04,960
well that fishing line when it comes up

1992
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:07,040
against the microphone

1993
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:10,400
on the video camera makes this

1994
01:11:15,910 --> 01:11:12,640
synthesizer type noise it's the wind

1995
01:11:18,870 --> 01:11:15,920
coiling up in the strings

1996
01:11:22,310 --> 01:11:18,880
and it makes this noise and it and we it

1997
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:22,320
was an accidental discovery this noise

1998
01:11:27,350 --> 01:11:24,880
um because it brushed against the

1999
01:11:29,830 --> 01:11:27,360
microphone of the camera

2000
01:11:30,630 --> 01:11:29,840
uh is the one that um

2001
01:11:32,470 --> 01:11:30,640
uh

2002
01:11:34,470 --> 01:11:32,480
this fishing line creates this noise

2003
01:11:37,430 --> 01:11:34,480
when it's coiled up and in the wind it's

2004
01:11:38,709 --> 01:11:37,440
identical it was eerie and it was an

2005
01:11:40,550 --> 01:11:38,719
accidental discovery because it was

2006
01:11:42,470 --> 01:11:40,560
really windy that day in england when he

2007
01:11:44,229 --> 01:11:42,480
was filming that sequence

2008
01:11:45,110 --> 01:11:44,239
um i think he's wearing a jacket that

2009
01:11:46,709 --> 01:11:45,120
day

2010
01:11:49,110 --> 01:11:46,719
but i can send you this stuff it was an

2011
01:11:50,709 --> 01:11:49,120
accident

2012
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:50,719
my point is when michael horn says that

2013
01:11:56,070 --> 01:11:52,640
nobody's ever been able to recreate the

2014
01:11:58,229 --> 01:11:56,080
sound or identify it that's not

2015
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:58,239
that's not factually correct if somebody

2016
01:12:03,350 --> 01:12:01,199
has got one that's almost exact and uh

2017
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:03,360
you know i can i can if you have if you

2018
01:12:07,430 --> 01:12:05,840
have like audio recording of yours i can

2019
01:12:09,270 --> 01:12:07,440
put them both in an audio editor and

2020
01:12:11,110 --> 01:12:09,280
look at the waveforms and see how close

2021
01:12:13,270 --> 01:12:11,120
it is or yeah

2022
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:13,280
yeah it it it sounds the same i know

2023
01:12:17,189 --> 01:12:15,360
that when you start digitally profiling

2024
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:17,199
it then you have a problem that uh the

2025
01:12:23,590 --> 01:12:19,440
digital source can induce artifacts and

2026
01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:25,669
enough to me i'm sure that it's the same

2027
01:12:29,189 --> 01:12:26,960
sound

2028
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:29,199
yeah it actually when you think about it

2029
01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:31,280
you know have you ever taken a reel of a

2030
01:12:35,590 --> 01:12:33,840
fishing line as a kid and it it it

2031
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:35,600
spools out of control and you end up

2032
01:12:38,550 --> 01:12:37,679
with a bunch of coil coming off of the

2033
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:38,560
thing

2034
01:12:44,310 --> 01:12:41,760
well when you put that in the wind and

2035
01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:44,320
brush it near a microphone

2036
01:12:48,070 --> 01:12:46,320
that's the sound you get

2037
01:12:50,790 --> 01:12:48,080
and it makes sense

2038
01:12:53,590 --> 01:12:50,800
that meyer when he was pulling on this

2039
01:12:55,910 --> 01:12:53,600
probably accidentally you know

2040
01:12:57,750 --> 01:12:55,920
did this and like wow that sounds cool

2041
01:12:59,270 --> 01:12:57,760
now i'm not saying somebody may not have

2042
01:13:02,229 --> 01:12:59,280
played with the synthesizer later

2043
01:13:03,430 --> 01:13:02,239
because uh you you can't accept the

2044
01:13:05,350 --> 01:13:03,440
so-called

2045
01:13:08,310 --> 01:13:05,360
audio recording is evidence of anything

2046
01:13:10,310 --> 01:13:08,320
because without a control science cannot

2047
01:13:12,870 --> 01:13:10,320
be applied you have to go back to the

2048
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:12,880
photos and this is what they keep now

2049
01:13:16,950 --> 01:13:14,480
trying to avoid

2050
01:13:18,950 --> 01:13:16,960
uh which is the photos they used to say

2051
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:18,960
nobody could duplicate them if anybody

2052
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:21,360
duplicates them we'll say it's a hoax

2053
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:23,040
you know window used to say that well

2054
01:13:26,229 --> 01:13:24,560
then they started to get duplicated and

2055
01:13:28,310 --> 01:13:26,239
they said well just because you can

2056
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:28,320
duplicate it doesn't improve it's a hoax

2057
01:13:32,310 --> 01:13:30,400
they keep moving the goal posts the

2058
01:13:34,709 --> 01:13:32,320
photos are a fraud there's no question

2059
01:13:35,990 --> 01:13:34,719
yeah and somewhere someone has even on

2060
01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:36,000
youtube

2061
01:13:40,790 --> 01:13:38,080
built the models hung them and

2062
01:13:42,550 --> 01:13:40,800
photographed them with an with one arm

2063
01:13:45,669 --> 01:13:42,560
tied behind his back

2064
01:13:47,590 --> 01:13:45,679
yeah phil langdon has done that uh

2065
01:13:49,030 --> 01:13:47,600
i wasn't with him it's amazing to watch

2066
01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:49,040
this stuff

2067
01:13:53,110 --> 01:13:51,040
yeah it is and um

2068
01:13:55,430 --> 01:13:53,120
michael has tried to discredit phil

2069
01:13:58,470 --> 01:13:55,440
langdon and he has not been able to do

2070
01:13:59,510 --> 01:13:58,480
it and so one of the projects i'm going

2071
01:14:02,070 --> 01:13:59,520
to do

2072
01:14:04,950 --> 01:14:02,080
sometime next year it's not number one

2073
01:14:07,189 --> 01:14:04,960
is i'm going to update the uh

2074
01:14:09,189 --> 01:14:07,199
spaceships of the pleiades book the new

2075
01:14:13,430 --> 01:14:09,199
title is going to be called fake ships

2076
01:14:15,430 --> 01:14:13,440
of the pleiades with fake in all caps

2077
01:14:17,910 --> 01:14:15,440
and the i can send you cover the book

2078
01:14:20,550 --> 01:14:17,920
it's already done and it shows our

2079
01:14:23,270 --> 01:14:20,560
recreation of these uh sunset photos

2080
01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:23,280
i'll send you a copy of the book and uh

2081
01:14:27,830 --> 01:14:25,440
because phil and i are friends i was

2082
01:14:30,070 --> 01:14:27,840
going to write it up and add his stuff

2083
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:30,080
and send it to him and have him give

2084
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:31,920
whatever inputs and then we can you know

2085
01:14:36,709 --> 01:14:34,480
release it but i wanted michael tried to

2086
01:14:38,470 --> 01:14:36,719
imply that he helped phil langdon try to

2087
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:38,480
recreate the photos or something like

2088
01:14:41,830 --> 01:14:40,320
that which i found kind of odd why would

2089
01:14:43,669 --> 01:14:41,840
he want to help a guy who's trying to

2090
01:14:46,550 --> 01:14:43,679
debunk the

2091
01:14:48,310 --> 01:14:46,560
no what michael has done is he's put his

2092
01:14:51,189 --> 01:14:48,320
two cents worth but that doesn't mean

2093
01:14:55,990 --> 01:14:53,669
i have all of uh phil's photos he's

2094
01:14:57,830 --> 01:14:56,000
given me the use of them unconditionally

2095
01:15:00,070 --> 01:14:57,840
and the agreement i have with him is if

2096
01:15:01,830 --> 01:15:00,080
i ever do anything with them i'm gonna

2097
01:15:03,510 --> 01:15:01,840
split whatever with him because you know

2098
01:15:05,189 --> 01:15:03,520
i should he's he's been a buddy and a

2099
01:15:07,270 --> 01:15:05,199
partner you know and the motive isn't

2100
01:15:09,430 --> 01:15:07,280
money anyway if i wanted to make money

2101
01:15:10,790 --> 01:15:09,440
off this stuff i'd say it's all real

2102
01:15:12,870 --> 01:15:10,800
yeah

2103
01:15:14,470 --> 01:15:12,880
you know i i wanted to know if we could

2104
01:15:15,669 --> 01:15:14,480
get into some of your other books

2105
01:15:17,830 --> 01:15:15,679
because one of the other books that i

2106
01:15:21,430 --> 01:15:17,840
thought was amazing was the roswell ufo

2107
01:15:24,790 --> 01:15:21,440
crash what they don't want you to know

2108
01:15:27,189 --> 01:15:24,800
what is the bottom line that you got for

2109
01:15:28,790 --> 01:15:27,199
writing that book what is it that most

2110
01:15:31,110 --> 01:15:28,800
people what is it that they don't want

2111
01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:31,120
us to know about the roswell case that

2112
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:33,840
that you talk about in the book

2113
01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:35,760
well i'm one of the four original

2114
01:15:40,470 --> 01:15:37,760
roswell researchers and this is

2115
01:15:42,550 --> 01:15:40,480
something that drives these uh

2116
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:42,560
right-click wonders today nuts because

2117
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:44,560
they can't take this out of the universe

2118
01:15:48,070 --> 01:15:46,400
they can only deny it

2119
01:15:49,669 --> 01:15:48,080
so again i'm one of the four original

2120
01:15:52,470 --> 01:15:49,679
researchers uh bill moore stanton

2121
01:15:55,750 --> 01:15:52,480
friedman being two of the other four

2122
01:15:58,149 --> 01:15:55,760
and we all know each other and um

2123
01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:58,159
stanton of course passed away earlier

2124
01:16:02,229 --> 01:15:59,280
this year

2125
01:16:04,870 --> 01:16:02,239
and what happened is um

2126
01:16:06,470 --> 01:16:04,880
when i was in high school there were two

2127
01:16:08,709 --> 01:16:06,480
major incidents that happened between

2128
01:16:11,590 --> 01:16:08,719
friedman and i one was the betty hill

2129
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:11,600
case benny barney hill ufo case because

2130
01:16:15,430 --> 01:16:13,679
um in the current issue of the skeptical

2131
01:16:17,430 --> 01:16:15,440
inquirer which just came out in the

2132
01:16:20,229 --> 01:16:17,440
november december issue i have an

2133
01:16:22,550 --> 01:16:20,239
article called from cosmic watergate to

2134
01:16:23,590 --> 01:16:22,560
cosmic watermelon the stan friedman i

2135
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:23,600
knew

2136
01:16:26,709 --> 01:16:25,280
and in this article it shows a

2137
01:16:30,070 --> 01:16:26,719
photograph from the san francisco

2138
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:30,080
examiner newspaper of me shocked

2139
01:16:32,790 --> 01:16:31,600
you see the look on my face when i'm

2140
01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:32,800
looking at friedman because i can't

2141
01:16:37,830 --> 01:16:35,040
believe the [\h__\h] i'm hearing

2142
01:16:40,149 --> 01:16:37,840
and what he's telling me in the media at

2143
01:16:41,669 --> 01:16:40,159
a press event that i arranged when i

2144
01:16:43,750 --> 01:16:41,679
invited him to lecture with me when i

2145
01:16:45,590 --> 01:16:43,760
was in high school i started lecturing

2146
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:45,600
when i was just 13 years of age and

2147
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:47,520
being in the media and all that stuff as

2148
01:16:51,669 --> 01:16:49,920
a so-called prodigy child and friedman

2149
01:16:54,390 --> 01:16:51,679
was a mentor of mine

2150
01:16:55,669 --> 01:16:54,400
and uh what happened is um

2151
01:16:57,669 --> 01:16:55,679
uh

2152
01:16:59,590 --> 01:16:57,679
he started saying that the space shuttle

2153
01:17:01,110 --> 01:16:59,600
was going up in space now and that would

2154
01:17:03,590 --> 01:17:01,120
bring down the aliens because we were

2155
01:17:05,189 --> 01:17:03,600
joining the galactic federation and

2156
01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:05,199
they would read us the rules of the

2157
01:17:09,270 --> 01:17:07,440
universe blah blah blah and this would

2158
01:17:11,270 --> 01:17:09,280
bring down the aliens because you know

2159
01:17:12,790 --> 01:17:11,280
we're regularly

2160
01:17:14,550 --> 01:17:12,800
you know uh

2161
01:17:16,470 --> 01:17:14,560
joining whatever he thought was going on

2162
01:17:17,910 --> 01:17:16,480
i'm like do you really think so you know

2163
01:17:19,270 --> 01:17:17,920
and that's the start of corpus the

2164
01:17:21,830 --> 01:17:19,280
article show

2165
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:21,840
and then what happened is um in october

2166
01:17:25,430 --> 01:17:23,760
1976

2167
01:17:27,430 --> 01:17:25,440
official ufo magazine published an

2168
01:17:30,310 --> 01:17:27,440
article by bob schaefer

2169
01:17:32,229 --> 01:17:30,320
destroying the betty hill star map the

2170
01:17:33,750 --> 01:17:32,239
work of marjory fish

2171
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:33,760
make a long story short the article

2172
01:17:37,910 --> 01:17:35,520
showed that another astronomer charles

2173
01:17:40,310 --> 01:17:37,920
atterberg had found a better map

2174
01:17:41,750 --> 01:17:40,320
a match for the hill star map

2175
01:17:44,550 --> 01:17:41,760
the fact that there was more than one

2176
01:17:45,669 --> 01:17:44,560
match meant the map was a rorschach now

2177
01:17:47,030 --> 01:17:45,679
in other words the one thing that

2178
01:17:48,870 --> 01:17:47,040
distinguished the hill case from all the

2179
01:17:51,510 --> 01:17:48,880
other abductions was a so-called alien

2180
01:17:53,990 --> 01:17:51,520
starmap that friedman always promoted

2181
01:17:56,149 --> 01:17:54,000
as their from zeta reticuli we know this

2182
01:17:58,870 --> 01:17:56,159
because of the work she did well it

2183
01:18:00,630 --> 01:17:58,880
turns out that's not true and modern

2184
01:18:03,270 --> 01:18:00,640
astronomical data from the hipparcos

2185
01:18:05,110 --> 01:18:03,280
satellite launched in the 90s which was

2186
01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:05,120
launched to measure the distances of

2187
01:18:08,790 --> 01:18:06,400
stars

2188
01:18:10,229 --> 01:18:08,800
totally destroyed the hill star map so

2189
01:18:13,030 --> 01:18:10,239
friedman knew

2190
01:18:15,669 --> 01:18:13,040
that the hill star map was not credible

2191
01:18:18,070 --> 01:18:15,679
he died lying to the public about it the

2192
01:18:20,229 --> 01:18:18,080
article is about that it exposes it it

2193
01:18:22,470 --> 01:18:20,239
proves it so this happened between

2194
01:18:25,590 --> 01:18:22,480
freeman and i when i was in high school

2195
01:18:27,590 --> 01:18:25,600
because when i found out from schaefer

2196
01:18:29,910 --> 01:18:27,600
that atterberg had done this i was

2197
01:18:31,430 --> 01:18:29,920
pissed off crushed because i believed in

2198
01:18:35,590 --> 01:18:31,440
the hill case i believed what freeman

2199
01:18:37,830 --> 01:18:35,600
said i uh i really was upset when i saw

2200
01:18:39,750 --> 01:18:37,840
the information

2201
01:18:41,830 --> 01:18:39,760
there's a there's more i think there's

2202
01:18:43,430 --> 01:18:41,840
more than just what you're citing as

2203
01:18:45,669 --> 01:18:43,440
proof oh yeah

2204
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:45,679
star map is not accurate at all and i

2205
01:18:49,270 --> 01:18:47,040
had always thought

2206
01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:49,280
while there's actual scientific proof

2207
01:18:53,669 --> 01:18:51,600
here and data we can look at it and it

2208
01:18:55,910 --> 01:18:53,679
matches and how did this woman has no

2209
01:18:57,990 --> 01:18:55,920
astronomy knowledge get this star map

2210
01:19:00,390 --> 01:18:58,000
and you know and i was upset because it

2211
01:19:02,229 --> 01:19:00,400
was just that disappointment that you

2212
01:19:04,310 --> 01:19:02,239
get like you know and i've had the same

2213
01:19:06,470 --> 01:19:04,320
kind of thing with bob lazar and others

2214
01:19:09,189 --> 01:19:06,480
that i thought at first were real you

2215
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:09,199
know same kind of disappointment and i

2216
01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:10,960
knew stanton uh

2217
01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:13,360
nowhere near as well as you but you know

2218
01:19:17,590 --> 01:19:15,120
towards the end of his life we used to

2219
01:19:19,510 --> 01:19:17,600
talk on the phone a lot and uh

2220
01:19:20,310 --> 01:19:19,520
i once pressed him on that stuff and he

2221
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:20,320
said

2222
01:19:25,430 --> 01:19:23,360
uh well there's multiple interpretations

2223
01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:25,440
then of of what and we can agree to

2224
01:19:30,950 --> 01:19:27,840
disagree i believe that the that the

2225
01:19:33,110 --> 01:19:30,960
hill case is real and the star map shows

2226
01:19:35,030 --> 01:19:33,120
what i believe it shows and since he was

2227
01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:35,040
an you know since he's a nuclear

2228
01:19:39,270 --> 01:19:37,120
physicist and much more educated than me

2229
01:19:40,070 --> 01:19:39,280
i just kind of i didn't press him on it

2230
01:19:42,790 --> 01:19:40,080
you know

2231
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:42,800
i wanted to remain friends and uh yeah

2232
01:19:47,430 --> 01:19:44,880
and have that sort of he was kind of

2233
01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:47,440
mentoring me as well you know

2234
01:19:51,910 --> 01:19:49,040
right when i started my show i started

2235
01:19:53,910 --> 01:19:51,920
talking to him and um you know

2236
01:19:56,310 --> 01:19:53,920
we were friends and and and then i was

2237
01:19:57,750 --> 01:19:56,320
respectful enough of him that i didn't

2238
01:19:59,430 --> 01:19:57,760
press him on it do you know what i mean

2239
01:20:00,390 --> 01:19:59,440
like i didn't want to yeah

2240
01:20:04,550 --> 01:20:00,400
you know

2241
01:20:06,229 --> 01:20:04,560
yeah i understand i uh when my uh so the

2242
01:20:07,990 --> 01:20:06,239
second thing that happened with us which

2243
01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:08,000
is a in line with what you're just

2244
01:20:11,350 --> 01:20:09,360
saying and i thank you for sharing that

2245
01:20:13,590 --> 01:20:11,360
because i think people need to know the

2246
01:20:14,790 --> 01:20:13,600
genesis of your involvement with him

2247
01:20:17,030 --> 01:20:14,800
and there's nothing wrong with that i

2248
01:20:19,910 --> 01:20:17,040
mean uh we remain friends as well but we

2249
01:20:21,910 --> 01:20:19,920
agreed to disagree but in my case i

2250
01:20:24,310 --> 01:20:21,920
could say in front of a judge and i've

2251
01:20:26,950 --> 01:20:24,320
got the files from the 70s still

2252
01:20:28,149 --> 01:20:26,960
i've published some images of them

2253
01:20:29,910 --> 01:20:28,159
in fact from the atterberg

2254
01:20:32,310 --> 01:20:29,920
correspondents because what i did was i

2255
01:20:34,950 --> 01:20:32,320
told stan i said schaefer both of you

2256
01:20:36,870 --> 01:20:34,960
can't be right one of you is wrong

2257
01:20:39,270 --> 01:20:36,880
i will be the guy in the middle to run

2258
01:20:40,470 --> 01:20:39,280
the trap and whatever the truth is we'll

2259
01:20:44,310 --> 01:20:40,480
deal with it

2260
01:20:47,510 --> 01:20:44,320
so i wrote atterberg every week for over

2261
01:20:50,149 --> 01:20:47,520
a year with the smith corona typewriter

2262
01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:50,159
those files have now been found after

2263
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:52,000
all these years and they're carbon

2264
01:20:55,350 --> 01:20:54,080
copies of the letters originals

2265
01:20:57,669 --> 01:20:55,360
and um

2266
01:20:59,350 --> 01:20:57,679
i threw everything everything that

2267
01:21:02,470 --> 01:20:59,360
anybody had because i went to everybody

2268
01:21:04,229 --> 01:21:02,480
carl sagan friedman you name it schaefer

2269
01:21:06,550 --> 01:21:04,239
threw it all there was the guy in the

2270
01:21:09,430 --> 01:21:06,560
middle and i

2271
01:21:11,270 --> 01:21:09,440
got frustrated with friedman i said

2272
01:21:12,229 --> 01:21:11,280
don't tell me you're not an astronomer i

2273
01:21:14,709 --> 01:21:12,239
don't know

2274
01:21:16,709 --> 01:21:14,719
and then you promote the fish thing

2275
01:21:19,830 --> 01:21:16,719
he has nailed it and he's done it in a

2276
01:21:22,790 --> 01:21:19,840
way where anybody anybody can prove it

2277
01:21:24,470 --> 01:21:22,800
he's right he used more updated data and

2278
01:21:26,629 --> 01:21:24,480
it wasn't fish's fault the gliese star

2279
01:21:29,189 --> 01:21:26,639
catalog got updated every five years

2280
01:21:30,550 --> 01:21:29,199
back then now it's pretty much real time

2281
01:21:32,550 --> 01:21:30,560
from space

2282
01:21:34,149 --> 01:21:32,560
and then when the parkour satellite was

2283
01:21:35,830 --> 01:21:34,159
was uh matched

2284
01:21:37,590 --> 01:21:35,840
i think it was uh

2285
01:21:40,470 --> 01:21:37,600
16 of the 20

2286
01:21:43,350 --> 01:21:40,480
odd stars fell apart so it just isn't

2287
01:21:45,669 --> 01:21:43,360
true and he knew this so his claim

2288
01:21:47,590 --> 01:21:45,679
agreed to disagree whatever i'm sorry he

2289
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:47,600
wasn't telling you the truth

2290
01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:49,040
now the second thing that happened was

2291
01:21:53,030 --> 01:21:51,280
much more serious and that led to the

2292
01:21:56,310 --> 01:21:53,040
roswell book

2293
01:21:59,669 --> 01:21:56,320
what happened is um in high school bill

2294
01:22:02,790 --> 01:21:59,679
moore comes to visit me we

2295
01:22:05,030 --> 01:22:02,800
interview uh before the press

2296
01:22:07,910 --> 01:22:05,040
bill moore brings out for the first time

2297
01:22:09,510 --> 01:22:07,920
for i'm seeing them the uncropped 8x10

2298
01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:09,520
images of the roswell debris

2299
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:11,760
photographed in rainey's office and i've

2300
01:22:14,070 --> 01:22:12,960
seen them in the book but they were

2301
01:22:15,990 --> 01:22:14,080
cropped

2302
01:22:19,510 --> 01:22:16,000
and i noticed in the book that there was

2303
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:19,520
some text on the memo in raymie's hand

2304
01:22:23,910 --> 01:22:21,840
and now i'm looking at the eight by tens

2305
01:22:26,870 --> 01:22:23,920
that are uncropped the best copies out

2306
01:22:28,550 --> 01:22:26,880
there that friedman has and more have

2307
01:22:30,709 --> 01:22:28,560
and i said bill can i have these photos

2308
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:30,719
i said i think i can blow this up here

2309
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:32,880
and read that memo okay

2310
01:22:36,790 --> 01:22:34,800
uh there's something there

2311
01:22:38,870 --> 01:22:36,800
and um that's why i laugh today when

2312
01:22:41,350 --> 01:22:38,880
people are looking at that memo today as

2313
01:22:43,750 --> 01:22:41,360
if it was an original discovery recent

2314
01:22:45,590 --> 01:22:43,760
you know it's [\h__\h] uh we we solved

2315
01:22:47,510 --> 01:22:45,600
that in the in the 80s

2316
01:22:49,910 --> 01:22:47,520
and so what happened is um i took it to

2317
01:22:51,669 --> 01:22:49,920
al reid i took the photos we put it on

2318
01:22:53,669 --> 01:22:51,679
the uh

2319
01:22:56,149 --> 01:22:53,679
stat camera blew it up

2320
01:22:58,390 --> 01:22:56,159
got it down to the grain of the photo

2321
01:23:00,390 --> 01:22:58,400
and we could tell that it was basically

2322
01:23:02,629 --> 01:23:00,400
a press dispatch

2323
01:23:06,390 --> 01:23:02,639
and it didn't it wasn't some secret

2324
01:23:09,830 --> 01:23:06,400
order to um you know cover this up

2325
01:23:11,590 --> 01:23:09,840
and i told stan i said stan

2326
01:23:12,870 --> 01:23:11,600
these are the original roswell photos

2327
01:23:15,110 --> 01:23:12,880
you have them

2328
01:23:18,550 --> 01:23:15,120
this is not the debris from a spaceship

2329
01:23:19,990 --> 01:23:18,560
this is a kite it's aluminum look

2330
01:23:22,310 --> 01:23:20,000
come on you're gonna tell me you

2331
01:23:24,310 --> 01:23:22,320
couldn't tear this or dent it with a 16

2332
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:24,320
pound sledgehammer and here it is

2333
01:23:29,030 --> 01:23:26,400
crumpled dented broken

2334
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:29,040
and this black stuff is a balloon that's

2335
01:23:33,430 --> 01:23:31,280
been in the sun for weeks hello

2336
01:23:35,430 --> 01:23:33,440
it's right there at his feet

2337
01:23:38,229 --> 01:23:35,440
and then friedman looks at me and you

2338
01:23:40,550 --> 01:23:38,239
know he wore those glasses right yeah

2339
01:23:43,350 --> 01:23:40,560
and his eyes got big and i could see

2340
01:23:45,510 --> 01:23:43,360
them big through the glasses

2341
01:23:46,830 --> 01:23:45,520
and he says there must have been a

2342
01:23:50,709 --> 01:23:46,840
debris

2343
01:23:53,110 --> 01:23:50,719
switch and i was like oh my god

2344
01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:53,120
oh my god this is this is this is the

2345
01:23:57,270 --> 01:23:55,120
father of roswell

2346
01:23:58,870 --> 01:23:57,280
and i'm crushed at this point i i'm a

2347
01:24:01,750 --> 01:23:58,880
kid i'm crushed

2348
01:24:03,590 --> 01:24:01,760
i'm like oh my god this is a photo the

2349
01:24:05,189 --> 01:24:03,600
uncropped stuff and you're telling me

2350
01:24:07,030 --> 01:24:05,199
they switched the debris because you

2351
01:24:09,990 --> 01:24:07,040
don't want to face the fact that there's

2352
01:24:12,629 --> 01:24:10,000
no spaceship debris here

2353
01:24:15,270 --> 01:24:12,639
right yeah so

2354
01:24:17,350 --> 01:24:15,280
roswell was solved at that point

2355
01:24:19,030 --> 01:24:17,360
and then do you stand

2356
01:24:20,790 --> 01:24:19,040
do you still believe that it was just a

2357
01:24:22,709 --> 01:24:20,800
weather balloon and what do you think of

2358
01:24:24,629 --> 01:24:22,719
those people that have blown up that

2359
01:24:27,350 --> 01:24:24,639
memo and gotten

2360
01:24:29,270 --> 01:24:27,360
part of the sentences that mentioned uh

2361
01:24:32,470 --> 01:24:29,280
you know bodies and debris and things

2362
01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:32,480
like that there's been a lot of image

2363
01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:34,560
there there has been but but you have to

2364
01:24:40,070 --> 01:24:37,199
back up for a couple of things um

2365
01:24:41,990 --> 01:24:40,080
so now uh years go by and roswell

2366
01:24:45,430 --> 01:24:42,000
because of unsolved mysteries

2367
01:24:47,270 --> 01:24:45,440
um gets a second life frank kaufman all

2368
01:24:48,950 --> 01:24:47,280
these people come out glenn dennis who

2369
01:24:50,629 --> 01:24:48,960
were never there before

2370
01:24:53,750 --> 01:24:50,639
uh they're not in the original roswell

2371
01:24:55,830 --> 01:24:53,760
incident book with by burlitz and warren

2372
01:24:56,709 --> 01:24:55,840
they came out after unsolved mysteries

2373
01:24:58,629 --> 01:24:56,719
aired

2374
01:25:00,310 --> 01:24:58,639
and that's what really surprised me

2375
01:25:02,229 --> 01:25:00,320
because having been involved in the

2376
01:25:03,990 --> 01:25:02,239
original investigation

2377
01:25:05,510 --> 01:25:04,000
we would have found some of these people

2378
01:25:08,070 --> 01:25:05,520
you couldn't miss a glen dennis if he

2379
01:25:09,510 --> 01:25:08,080
really had been involved from day one

2380
01:25:11,510 --> 01:25:09,520
so what because you know it's a small

2381
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:11,520
town they all knew each other and fred

2382
01:25:15,110 --> 01:25:13,199
kaufman was the president of the roswell

2383
01:25:16,390 --> 01:25:15,120
chamber of commerce how freaking

2384
01:25:19,510 --> 01:25:16,400
convenient

2385
01:25:22,950 --> 01:25:19,520
so what happened was um

2386
01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:22,960
1995 is 1997's coming up and i talked to

2387
01:25:25,350 --> 01:25:24,159
prometheus

2388
01:25:27,189 --> 01:25:25,360
and i said what are you doing for the

2389
01:25:29,270 --> 01:25:27,199
50th anniversary of roswell because the

2390
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:29,280
media's going to go nuts

2391
01:25:32,470 --> 01:25:31,120
they said we're not doing anything i

2392
01:25:36,070 --> 01:25:32,480
said why

2393
01:25:38,310 --> 01:25:36,080
i said you don't have a second 50th

2394
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:38,320
and i appreciated the anniversary stuff

2395
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:39,600
because i've been to larry king on the

2396
01:25:43,910 --> 01:25:41,520
30th anniversary kennedy's murder

2397
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:43,920
solving that case and i appreciate the

2398
01:25:49,750 --> 01:25:45,840
fact that we're an anniversary society

2399
01:25:51,750 --> 01:25:49,760
unfortunately and 50th is a big deal

2400
01:25:53,669 --> 01:25:51,760
so prometheus says we don't have a book

2401
01:25:56,149 --> 01:25:53,679
that says anything incredible about it

2402
01:25:57,990 --> 01:25:56,159
we've got carl flock's book and he says

2403
01:25:59,189 --> 01:25:58,000
this is what flock had said i'm not

2404
01:26:01,590 --> 01:25:59,199
making it up

2405
01:26:04,550 --> 01:26:01,600
that a mogul balloon slammed into a

2406
01:26:07,030 --> 01:26:04,560
spaceship and both came down

2407
01:26:08,950 --> 01:26:07,040
i said that's freaking ridiculous

2408
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:08,960
you might as well say it was just aliens

2409
01:26:13,189 --> 01:26:11,120
it's more credible

2410
01:26:15,669 --> 01:26:13,199
so prometheus rejected his book i said

2411
01:26:16,950 --> 01:26:15,679
look i'll i'll write it i'll oh i know

2412
01:26:19,830 --> 01:26:16,960
the answers

2413
01:26:21,350 --> 01:26:19,840
i'll write it i'll i'll do the book

2414
01:26:23,110 --> 01:26:21,360
and they said well

2415
01:26:24,470 --> 01:26:23,120
you got to get it to us in 30 days man

2416
01:26:26,709 --> 01:26:24,480
it's october

2417
01:26:27,910 --> 01:26:26,719
so i got it i got them i got it in 30

2418
01:26:29,430 --> 01:26:27,920
days to them

2419
01:26:30,790 --> 01:26:29,440
it was probably i think four and a half

2420
01:26:32,070 --> 01:26:30,800
weeks

2421
01:26:34,070 --> 01:26:32,080
and that's why i kind of laugh when

2422
01:26:36,310 --> 01:26:34,080
people have said when they review it

2423
01:26:39,189 --> 01:26:36,320
they said fast-paced book i didn't have

2424
01:26:42,149 --> 01:26:39,199
a lot of time so it was one big brain

2425
01:26:45,110 --> 01:26:42,159
dump i i i got a little macintosh sat in

2426
01:26:47,030 --> 01:26:45,120
the basement for a month pounded it out

2427
01:26:48,830 --> 01:26:47,040
and uh that's that's the book and and to

2428
01:26:51,270 --> 01:26:48,840
my shock it became it is the

2429
01:26:52,070 --> 01:26:51,280
best-selling expose of roswell of all

2430
01:26:54,070 --> 01:26:52,080
time

2431
01:26:56,070 --> 01:26:54,080
so the original title was the roswell

2432
01:26:58,550 --> 01:26:56,080
ufo crash exposed prometheus says

2433
01:27:00,310 --> 01:26:58,560
that'll never work

2434
01:27:02,149 --> 01:27:00,320
instead it's going to be what they don't

2435
01:27:03,350 --> 01:27:02,159
want you to know and i said well who's

2436
01:27:05,030 --> 01:27:03,360
they

2437
01:27:06,870 --> 01:27:05,040
well it's all the conspiracy nutters

2438
01:27:09,750 --> 01:27:06,880
because it's they it's not the

2439
01:27:12,790 --> 01:27:09,760
government but people because they have

2440
01:27:15,350 --> 01:27:12,800
a bias towards conspiracies they're so

2441
01:27:17,270 --> 01:27:15,360
suspicious they're disposed to them

2442
01:27:19,669 --> 01:27:17,280
they think they is whoever they want

2443
01:27:22,709 --> 01:27:19,679
they to be sure and people bought the

2444
01:27:25,510 --> 01:27:22,719
book on that title took it home only to

2445
01:27:29,750 --> 01:27:27,350
if you if you want my

2446
01:27:32,790 --> 01:27:29,760
my honest take on it when i read that is

2447
01:27:34,790 --> 01:27:32,800
i was thoroughly disappointed and then i

2448
01:27:37,510 --> 01:27:34,800
guess i would ask you see what happened

2449
01:27:39,350 --> 01:27:37,520
in my case is i read the probably the

2450
01:27:42,149 --> 01:27:39,360
older books that were sort of supporting

2451
01:27:43,990 --> 01:27:42,159
the alien hypothesis first

2452
01:27:45,510 --> 01:27:44,000
then i read your book and i went man

2453
01:27:47,910 --> 01:27:45,520
what a letdown

2454
01:27:50,229 --> 01:27:47,920
and then i read uh some books by don

2455
01:27:52,709 --> 01:27:50,239
schmidt and a few others and what do you

2456
01:27:53,990 --> 01:27:52,719
say to some of the people because i had

2457
01:27:56,310 --> 01:27:54,000
don schmidt on my show and he's very

2458
01:27:57,990 --> 01:27:56,320
convincing and his books are

2459
01:27:59,590 --> 01:27:58,000
i thought they were well researched

2460
01:28:01,910 --> 01:27:59,600
where he's and don schmidt will

2461
01:28:03,590 --> 01:28:01,920
basically say i can tell you the name of

2462
01:28:04,950 --> 01:28:03,600
the pilots that took the debris to

2463
01:28:07,110 --> 01:28:04,960
wright patterson i could tell you the

2464
01:28:08,709 --> 01:28:07,120
name of people who picked up the debris

2465
01:28:11,030 --> 01:28:08,719
and said there's no way it was a weather

2466
01:28:13,270 --> 01:28:11,040
balloon and things like that so my

2467
01:28:15,830 --> 01:28:13,280
journey in roswell kind of went yeah i

2468
01:28:17,750 --> 01:28:15,840
believe it it had to be alien and then

2469
01:28:20,070 --> 01:28:17,760
we get to your book and i went man what

2470
01:28:21,830 --> 01:28:20,080
a letdown but that's probably the the

2471
01:28:23,430 --> 01:28:21,840
simplest explanation

2472
01:28:26,310 --> 01:28:23,440
and then we get to further books that

2473
01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:26,320
support the alien hypothesis and then

2474
01:28:28,790 --> 01:28:27,280
the the

2475
01:28:31,110 --> 01:28:28,800
you know the work that was done on that

2476
01:28:32,870 --> 01:28:31,120
memo seems convincing to me but you're

2477
01:28:34,709 --> 01:28:32,880
still convinced that it was an ordinary

2478
01:28:36,470 --> 01:28:34,719
event that's just been blown and turned

2479
01:28:38,310 --> 01:28:36,480
into a myth

2480
01:28:41,510 --> 01:28:38,320
yeah i'll tell you the biggest problem

2481
01:28:43,990 --> 01:28:41,520
with the so-called cosmic watergate and

2482
01:28:45,669 --> 01:28:44,000
i think if you really uh and of course i

2483
01:28:47,270 --> 01:28:45,679
wish you the best going forward in

2484
01:28:50,229 --> 01:28:47,280
whatever shows you do in the future with

2485
01:28:52,709 --> 01:28:50,239
any ufo researchers but going forward i

2486
01:28:55,590 --> 01:28:52,719
would ask you to consider

2487
01:28:56,629 --> 01:28:55,600
asking all future guests this one

2488
01:28:58,229 --> 01:28:56,639
question

2489
01:29:00,149 --> 01:28:58,239
and i'm going to revisit this issue at

2490
01:29:02,390 --> 01:29:00,159
in my upcoming media event on november

2491
01:29:05,669 --> 01:29:02,400
22nd where i'm launching a series that

2492
01:29:07,510 --> 01:29:05,679
takes out the kennedy conspiracy bs

2493
01:29:09,030 --> 01:29:07,520
um got to do it on the anniversary of

2494
01:29:11,350 --> 01:29:09,040
course starting with the grass you know

2495
01:29:13,590 --> 01:29:11,360
eyewitnesses they all get eliminated

2496
01:29:16,870 --> 01:29:13,600
uh credibility wise here's the issue i

2497
01:29:19,030 --> 01:29:16,880
call it the mossad problem

2498
01:29:22,070 --> 01:29:19,040
any conspiracy person even friedman

2499
01:29:24,629 --> 01:29:22,080
would admit mo assad is the biggest

2500
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:24,639
badass intel agency on the planet hands

2501
01:29:28,470 --> 01:29:26,080
down

2502
01:29:31,510 --> 01:29:28,480
okay having said that

2503
01:29:33,750 --> 01:29:31,520
if roswell really happened

2504
01:29:35,830 --> 01:29:33,760
or any ufo crash

2505
01:29:37,350 --> 01:29:35,840
or any of these incidents are out there

2506
01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:37,360
and the government has

2507
01:29:41,910 --> 01:29:39,120
military data

2508
01:29:44,550 --> 01:29:41,920
smoking gun images radar trackings

2509
01:29:47,030 --> 01:29:44,560
landings physical evidence anything

2510
01:29:49,430 --> 01:29:47,040
that they can take to the bank analyze

2511
01:29:52,229 --> 01:29:49,440
reverse engineer whatever

2512
01:29:55,830 --> 01:29:52,239
where are the secret mossad ufo roswell

2513
01:29:57,590 --> 01:29:55,840
files or any ufo files where are they

2514
01:30:01,030 --> 01:29:57,600
where are there any defectors from

2515
01:30:03,910 --> 01:30:01,040
mossad or any other intelligence agency

2516
01:30:06,790 --> 01:30:03,920
post-cold war there's been tens of

2517
01:30:08,550 --> 01:30:06,800
thousands of them literally hundreds of

2518
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:08,560
thousands of them

2519
01:30:12,709 --> 01:30:11,600
who have released all kinds of stuff

2520
01:30:15,430 --> 01:30:12,719
we have

2521
01:30:17,510 --> 01:30:15,440
the complete engineering designs of all

2522
01:30:19,030 --> 01:30:17,520
russian warheads

2523
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:19,040
yeah right about that

2524
01:30:23,189 --> 01:30:21,120
okay so

2525
01:30:24,149 --> 01:30:23,199
where are the people who had to study

2526
01:30:25,830 --> 01:30:24,159
this

2527
01:30:27,270 --> 01:30:25,840
their replacements when they were

2528
01:30:29,510 --> 01:30:27,280
transferred when they gave their

2529
01:30:32,390 --> 01:30:29,520
briefings how many departments

2530
01:30:34,870 --> 01:30:32,400
over 70 something years there would have

2531
01:30:36,870 --> 01:30:34,880
to be thousands of people

2532
01:30:38,390 --> 01:30:36,880
but where are they where's their secret

2533
01:30:41,110 --> 01:30:38,400
diaries left behind

2534
01:30:44,070 --> 01:30:41,120
where's any leaks it's not there

2535
01:30:45,750 --> 01:30:44,080
so when mossad starts caring about the

2536
01:30:47,910 --> 01:30:45,760
ufo subject

2537
01:30:49,830 --> 01:30:47,920
kalkorf is going to start caring when

2538
01:30:52,070 --> 01:30:49,840
they care about aliens

2539
01:30:54,870 --> 01:30:52,080
until then i'm sorry

2540
01:30:57,350 --> 01:30:54,880
it can't you can't have it both ways

2541
01:30:59,189 --> 01:30:57,360
and this problem is very real because

2542
01:31:01,030 --> 01:30:59,199
when i left the u.s

2543
01:31:03,510 --> 01:31:01,040
and i started hanging out with all kinds

2544
01:31:05,990 --> 01:31:03,520
of people who were the right people at

2545
01:31:08,070 --> 01:31:06,000
the time in the cold war

2546
01:31:10,070 --> 01:31:08,080
who were the people who either would

2547
01:31:12,070 --> 01:31:10,080
have blown up this planet or not

2548
01:31:13,510 --> 01:31:12,080
in a nuclear holocaust they were on the

2549
01:31:16,709 --> 01:31:13,520
front line

2550
01:31:18,709 --> 01:31:16,719
to a person there's nothing there

2551
01:31:20,629 --> 01:31:18,719
you don't have top secret german

2552
01:31:22,709 --> 01:31:20,639
intelligence files

2553
01:31:24,229 --> 01:31:22,719
russian files all this other stuff it's

2554
01:31:26,629 --> 01:31:24,239
not there

2555
01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:26,639
and if you go to mossad

2556
01:31:32,390 --> 01:31:30,719
the entity it's not there so contrary to

2557
01:31:34,390 --> 01:31:32,400
what friedman said

2558
01:31:35,270 --> 01:31:34,400
absence of evidence

2559
01:31:36,470 --> 01:31:35,280
is

2560
01:31:38,950 --> 01:31:36,480
at times

2561
01:31:41,350 --> 01:31:38,960
indeed evidence of absence there's a

2562
01:31:44,870 --> 01:31:41,360
distinct absence of evidence

2563
01:31:46,470 --> 01:31:44,880
as to why pigs don't fly because they

2564
01:31:47,350 --> 01:31:46,480
don't fly

2565
01:31:49,910 --> 01:31:47,360
okay

2566
01:31:52,149 --> 01:31:49,920
so what really woke me up was when i

2567
01:31:53,510 --> 01:31:52,159
went to work at lawrence livermore lab

2568
01:31:54,470 --> 01:31:53,520
and i'll share with you something i've

2569
01:31:56,550 --> 01:31:54,480
never

2570
01:31:59,350 --> 01:31:56,560
talked in public about before but i can

2571
01:32:01,669 --> 01:31:59,360
prove it what happened is i had been

2572
01:32:03,110 --> 01:32:01,679
hired at lawrence livermore lab

2573
01:32:05,110 --> 01:32:03,120
and i was the only person there who

2574
01:32:07,030 --> 01:32:05,120
didn't have a degree and i'm overseeing

2575
01:32:09,910 --> 01:32:07,040
people who have phds and all this and i

2576
01:32:11,350 --> 01:32:09,920
got into all kinds of stuff from sdi to

2577
01:32:12,629 --> 01:32:11,360
hypermedia

2578
01:32:14,629 --> 01:32:12,639
and what happened is the sounds like

2579
01:32:16,310 --> 01:32:14,639
mercury news calls me and they said cal

2580
01:32:19,189 --> 01:32:16,320
we haven't done a story on you in a few

2581
01:32:21,910 --> 01:32:19,199
years wondering what you're doing

2582
01:32:24,629 --> 01:32:21,920
um can i come out and see you and

2583
01:32:26,629 --> 01:32:24,639
we'll just wing it i said sure

2584
01:32:27,910 --> 01:32:26,639
so this lady comes over

2585
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:27,920
nice reporter

2586
01:32:32,149 --> 01:32:29,760
and she writes this uh

2587
01:32:34,390 --> 01:32:32,159
big story it's a on two different pages

2588
01:32:36,390 --> 01:32:34,400
in the paper front uh big story and it

2589
01:32:37,510 --> 01:32:36,400
says ufo buffs which is his attention to

2590
01:32:40,149 --> 01:32:37,520
computers

2591
01:32:42,070 --> 01:32:40,159
and it talks about how i was in the ufos

2592
01:32:44,229 --> 01:32:42,080
and how i'm really now into hyper media

2593
01:32:45,830 --> 01:32:44,239
i'm a multimedia pioneer

2594
01:32:47,350 --> 01:32:45,840
on the hypercard team and doing the

2595
01:32:48,550 --> 01:32:47,360
stuff at lawrence livermore lab and i'm

2596
01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:48,560
going to

2597
01:32:52,310 --> 01:32:50,560
bring hypermedia to the government and

2598
01:32:54,390 --> 01:32:52,320
what i ended up doing is writing the

2599
01:32:56,629 --> 01:32:54,400
classified view graph system

2600
01:32:57,990 --> 01:32:56,639
using hypercard because i was horrified

2601
01:33:00,629 --> 01:32:58,000
to find out

2602
01:33:02,310 --> 01:33:00,639
when i went into an area under escort in

2603
01:33:04,870 --> 01:33:02,320
the sdi program

2604
01:33:07,110 --> 01:33:04,880
that there was no classified view graph

2605
01:33:09,189 --> 01:33:07,120
tracking system people could go in and

2606
01:33:10,709 --> 01:33:09,199
grab classified slides

2607
01:33:13,350 --> 01:33:10,719
take them out

2608
01:33:14,229 --> 01:33:13,360
and bring them back on their honor

2609
01:33:16,950 --> 01:33:14,239
and

2610
01:33:19,510 --> 01:33:16,960
if they were spies nobody would know

2611
01:33:20,870 --> 01:33:19,520
and that really bugged me so i wrote

2612
01:33:24,870 --> 01:33:20,880
that system

2613
01:33:27,030 --> 01:33:24,880
i had access to real indexes because we

2614
01:33:28,790 --> 01:33:27,040
were using hyper card it was a brand new

2615
01:33:31,350 --> 01:33:28,800
thing the hyperlink the fact that you

2616
01:33:33,669 --> 01:33:31,360
could click on a document name and it

2617
01:33:36,550 --> 01:33:33,679
would go and open that document

2618
01:33:37,590 --> 01:33:36,560
back then we were using arpanet darpanet

2619
01:33:40,149 --> 01:33:37,600
and

2620
01:33:43,590 --> 01:33:40,159
a network called octopus which was the

2621
01:33:45,430 --> 01:33:43,600
internal uh classified intranet is what

2622
01:33:47,030 --> 01:33:45,440
they would call it today this is again

2623
01:33:48,950 --> 01:33:47,040
back in the 80s

2624
01:33:51,110 --> 01:33:48,960
so what happens is this article comes

2625
01:33:55,110 --> 01:33:51,120
out and it talks about how i'm going to

2626
01:33:57,189 --> 01:33:55,120
do hypercard hypermedia and that one day

2627
01:33:59,030 --> 01:33:57,199
people will read about me on a hypercard

2628
01:34:00,870 --> 01:33:59,040
the internet browser had not been

2629
01:34:03,110 --> 01:34:00,880
invented yet and it's all in this

2630
01:34:05,350 --> 01:34:03,120
article and it's never been

2631
01:34:07,590 --> 01:34:05,360
on the web because i never uploaded it

2632
01:34:09,669 --> 01:34:07,600
it's it's not uh part of the archives

2633
01:34:12,310 --> 01:34:09,679
online and sounds like mercury news i

2634
01:34:14,310 --> 01:34:12,320
can post it anytime my photos there both

2635
01:34:15,430 --> 01:34:14,320
of them shows me on the computer all

2636
01:34:18,709 --> 01:34:15,440
that stuff

2637
01:34:20,709 --> 01:34:18,719
so make a long story short i looked at

2638
01:34:22,470 --> 01:34:20,719
all the activity that was going on in

2639
01:34:24,790 --> 01:34:22,480
the late 40s

2640
01:34:26,629 --> 01:34:24,800
up to roswell there were no other

2641
01:34:29,990 --> 01:34:26,639
aviation incidents that could account

2642
01:34:31,669 --> 01:34:30,000
for the roswell story but you have to go

2643
01:34:34,229 --> 01:34:31,679
back to the beginning

2644
01:34:36,149 --> 01:34:34,239
as i said in the book and it is

2645
01:34:37,750 --> 01:34:36,159
something that don schmidt cannot get

2646
01:34:39,910 --> 01:34:37,760
away from or anybody

2647
01:34:41,430 --> 01:34:39,920
the original roswell witnesses never

2648
01:34:43,109 --> 01:34:41,440
described as [\h__\h]

2649
01:34:45,109 --> 01:34:43,119
never described a body

2650
01:34:47,910 --> 01:34:45,119
in fact of the seven so-called original

2651
01:34:49,910 --> 01:34:47,920
witnesses loretta proctor never held any

2652
01:34:52,470 --> 01:34:49,920
debris she made it clear she never did

2653
01:34:54,310 --> 01:34:52,480
when her husband died floyd

2654
01:34:56,390 --> 01:34:54,320
she made up a story that she held it

2655
01:34:57,590 --> 01:34:56,400
tried to bend it twisted so she's not

2656
01:34:59,750 --> 01:34:57,600
credible

2657
01:35:02,070 --> 01:34:59,760
jesse marcel i was the first one to get

2658
01:35:04,470 --> 01:35:02,080
his military file with bob todd

2659
01:35:06,550 --> 01:35:04,480
first one to publish it i had no idea in

2660
01:35:09,270 --> 01:35:06,560
high school and neither did friedman

2661
01:35:11,830 --> 01:35:09,280
that marcel was a bullshitter

2662
01:35:14,070 --> 01:35:11,840
um he wasn't a

2663
01:35:16,149 --> 01:35:14,080
guy who shot down five enemy aircraft he

2664
01:35:18,709 --> 01:35:16,159
didn't have a degree in physics he never

2665
01:35:21,030 --> 01:35:18,719
went to that school

2666
01:35:23,189 --> 01:35:21,040
it says in his evaluation

2667
01:35:25,510 --> 01:35:23,199
right after roswell he has a tendency to

2668
01:35:26,790 --> 01:35:25,520
magnify problems he's confronted with he

2669
01:35:28,709 --> 01:35:26,800
exaggerated

2670
01:35:30,390 --> 01:35:28,719
general ramy noted his career was

2671
01:35:32,070 --> 01:35:30,400
limited if he wasn't going to be a real

2672
01:35:34,390 --> 01:35:32,080
pilot so he could not have flown the

2673
01:35:37,189 --> 01:35:34,400
debris he wasn't a pilot

2674
01:35:40,310 --> 01:35:37,199
in the only nuclear air base at the area

2675
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:40,320
which was full of the top gun pilots so

2676
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:42,400
all this is true it doesn't matter what

2677
01:35:47,830 --> 01:35:44,400
don schmidt says

2678
01:35:51,430 --> 01:35:47,840
and we know that dr andrew um uh

2679
01:35:52,709 --> 01:35:51,440
takowski uh dr kowsky he looked at that

2680
01:35:54,550 --> 01:35:52,719
debris

2681
01:35:56,629 --> 01:35:54,560
made a phone call said this looks like

2682
01:35:58,790 --> 01:35:56,639
the stuff you're flying down there i

2683
01:36:00,470 --> 01:35:58,800
interviewed professor charles moore and

2684
01:36:02,470 --> 01:36:00,480
professor charles moore told me point

2685
01:36:05,350 --> 01:36:02,480
blank that he met with friedman and

2686
01:36:07,350 --> 01:36:05,360
berliner in socorro they had run an ad

2687
01:36:08,390 --> 01:36:07,360
in the paper soliciting roswell

2688
01:36:10,709 --> 01:36:08,400
witnesses

2689
01:36:12,870 --> 01:36:10,719
he went there to tell them it was mobile

2690
01:36:14,629 --> 01:36:12,880
not a weather balloon but mobile very

2691
01:36:15,510 --> 01:36:14,639
different issue the idea is a weather

2692
01:36:17,350 --> 01:36:15,520
balloon

2693
01:36:20,550 --> 01:36:17,360
is a false

2694
01:36:22,550 --> 01:36:20,560
phony straw man it wasn't it was a spy

2695
01:36:23,590 --> 01:36:22,560
device

2696
01:36:26,310 --> 01:36:23,600
period

2697
01:36:28,950 --> 01:36:26,320
long bigger than the washington monument

2698
01:36:31,109 --> 01:36:28,960
okay which is 555 feet tall it's about

2699
01:36:32,149 --> 01:36:31,119
650 feet tall

2700
01:36:34,470 --> 01:36:32,159
and

2701
01:36:35,669 --> 01:36:34,480
uh irving newton who was there who posed

2702
01:36:38,390 --> 01:36:35,679
with the debris

2703
01:36:40,629 --> 01:36:38,400
he later went to moore's house

2704
01:36:43,030 --> 01:36:40,639
and this is all documented on film

2705
01:36:45,350 --> 01:36:43,040
saw the original material that it was

2706
01:36:47,590 --> 01:36:45,360
still kept from there

2707
01:36:49,109 --> 01:36:47,600
and said yes this is exactly what i held

2708
01:36:50,229 --> 01:36:49,119
in the office

2709
01:36:52,790 --> 01:36:50,239
it's there

2710
01:36:54,550 --> 01:36:52,800
so so the explanation that

2711
01:36:55,990 --> 01:36:54,560
even he gave that the debris was

2712
01:36:58,229 --> 01:36:56,000
switched later

2713
01:37:01,109 --> 01:36:58,239
you know with that famous photo he was

2714
01:37:02,790 --> 01:37:01,119
forced to sort of you know the story

2715
01:37:05,109 --> 01:37:02,800
their story kind of goes that he was

2716
01:37:07,590 --> 01:37:05,119
forced to to kind of play the government

2717
01:37:10,870 --> 01:37:07,600
line and and you know uh

2718
01:37:13,189 --> 01:37:10,880
pose with this debris that's not what he

2719
01:37:15,430 --> 01:37:13,199
cle he claimed that was not what he saw

2720
01:37:17,750 --> 01:37:15,440
at the debris field

2721
01:37:18,870 --> 01:37:17,760
well the debris switch you're saying is

2722
01:37:23,350 --> 01:37:18,880
is not

2723
01:37:25,669 --> 01:37:23,360
no in fact general dubose who was there

2724
01:37:28,070 --> 01:37:25,679
said quote oh bold there was no debris

2725
01:37:30,149 --> 01:37:28,080
switch and i quoted him in the interview

2726
01:37:30,870 --> 01:37:30,159
and ironically i used the interview that

2727
01:37:32,709 --> 01:37:30,880
uh

2728
01:37:34,709 --> 01:37:32,719
kevin randle gave with him because i

2729
01:37:36,629 --> 01:37:34,719
wanted people to realize that the truth

2730
01:37:38,390 --> 01:37:36,639
about roswell is out there

2731
01:37:40,070 --> 01:37:38,400
if you really

2732
01:37:40,870 --> 01:37:40,080
research the books

2733
01:37:43,350 --> 01:37:40,880
that

2734
01:37:45,669 --> 01:37:43,360
[\h__\h] everybody on it um

2735
01:37:47,109 --> 01:37:45,679
i take out 22 of them including randall

2736
01:37:48,390 --> 01:37:47,119
and schmidt there's a reason randall

2737
01:37:50,229 --> 01:37:48,400
doesn't deal with schmidt anymore

2738
01:37:51,830 --> 01:37:50,239
randall's more credible than schmidt but

2739
01:37:54,709 --> 01:37:51,840
randall has his issues

2740
01:37:57,030 --> 01:37:54,719
um randall used to endorse kaufman i i

2741
01:37:59,590 --> 01:37:57,040
debated both of them on abc tv they lost

2742
01:38:01,750 --> 01:37:59,600
the debate i pointed out a simple fact

2743
01:38:02,870 --> 01:38:01,760
he wasn't in the military at the time of

2744
01:38:05,030 --> 01:38:02,880
roswell

2745
01:38:06,950 --> 01:38:05,040
game over so don't tell me about your

2746
01:38:09,669 --> 01:38:06,960
military career roswell when you weren't

2747
01:38:10,550 --> 01:38:09,679
even in the service at the time

2748
01:38:11,510 --> 01:38:10,560
come on

2749
01:38:15,510 --> 01:38:11,520
hello

2750
01:38:17,189 --> 01:38:15,520
yeah yeah i i did i'm sure that i have

2751
01:38:19,590 --> 01:38:17,199
you know

2752
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:19,600
sort of observed that the story just

2753
01:38:23,430 --> 01:38:22,000
grew and grew as the myth and the legend

2754
01:38:26,149 --> 01:38:23,440
of it grew and i think you're right in

2755
01:38:27,910 --> 01:38:26,159
that that unsolved mysteries i remember

2756
01:38:29,990 --> 01:38:27,920
seeing that as a kid and that just blew

2757
01:38:32,470 --> 01:38:30,000
that whole story up and then suddenly

2758
01:38:33,750 --> 01:38:32,480
there's all these new witnesses and

2759
01:38:35,830 --> 01:38:33,760
you know

2760
01:38:37,510 --> 01:38:35,840
yeah that's what happened and um it's

2761
01:38:38,390 --> 01:38:37,520
amazing because

2762
01:38:40,470 --> 01:38:38,400
uh

2763
01:38:42,149 --> 01:38:40,480
when you look at surveys that were done

2764
01:38:45,750 --> 01:38:42,159
you know with kennedy being the big

2765
01:38:48,149 --> 01:38:45,760
grand conspiracy uh to this day uh

2766
01:38:50,149 --> 01:38:48,159
now i think only 61 of americans believe

2767
01:38:51,910 --> 01:38:50,159
it instead of 81

2768
01:38:53,430 --> 01:38:51,920
but there's there's valid reasons why

2769
01:38:56,229 --> 01:38:53,440
they did and didn't believe in it the

2770
01:38:58,390 --> 01:38:56,239
government was its own worst enemy uh

2771
01:38:59,510 --> 01:38:58,400
they were absolutely covering things up

2772
01:39:01,030 --> 01:38:59,520
and then when the government finally

2773
01:39:02,709 --> 01:39:01,040
starts telling the truth people are so

2774
01:39:04,629 --> 01:39:02,719
jaded they're like well i don't believe

2775
01:39:07,590 --> 01:39:04,639
you you know and it's reached that point

2776
01:39:10,830 --> 01:39:07,600
now and i'll tell you what destroyed my

2777
01:39:12,709 --> 01:39:10,840
childhood on october 19

2778
01:39:15,430 --> 01:39:12,719
1973. is

2779
01:39:17,590 --> 01:39:15,440
i'm looking at the greenhouse photos

2780
01:39:19,430 --> 01:39:17,600
and either it shows a real alien or it

2781
01:39:21,189 --> 01:39:19,440
doesn't either people are liars

2782
01:39:23,270 --> 01:39:21,199
including the chief of police

2783
01:39:25,350 --> 01:39:23,280
or we're being visited and we need to

2784
01:39:27,910 --> 01:39:25,360
know this either way

2785
01:39:29,430 --> 01:39:27,920
the ramifications i thought as a young

2786
01:39:31,270 --> 01:39:29,440
kid were profound

2787
01:39:32,229 --> 01:39:31,280
and i thought okay

2788
01:39:34,550 --> 01:39:32,239
um

2789
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:34,560
now i go down to the library and i start

2790
01:39:38,390 --> 01:39:36,560
reading books by adamski and there's

2791
01:39:40,390 --> 01:39:38,400
aliens on the backside of the moon and

2792
01:39:41,830 --> 01:39:40,400
on venus and on saturn i'm like

2793
01:39:44,629 --> 01:39:41,840
i know better

2794
01:39:46,870 --> 01:39:44,639
like my god adults outright lie

2795
01:39:48,870 --> 01:39:46,880
hell of a thing for a kid to realize

2796
01:39:51,669 --> 01:39:48,880
and i thought you know

2797
01:39:52,550 --> 01:39:51,679
if this sickness

2798
01:39:54,870 --> 01:39:52,560
this

2799
01:39:56,950 --> 01:39:54,880
belief in stupidity where you just

2800
01:39:59,510 --> 01:39:56,960
abandon any pretense of critical

2801
01:40:01,189 --> 01:39:59,520
thinking becomes mainstream and jumps

2802
01:40:03,590 --> 01:40:01,199
from the fringe

2803
01:40:05,750 --> 01:40:03,600
to mainstream society

2804
01:40:07,189 --> 01:40:05,760
and it just takes enough of the percent

2805
01:40:08,790 --> 01:40:07,199
of the people to do that especially if

2806
01:40:11,430 --> 01:40:08,800
they vote

2807
01:40:13,430 --> 01:40:11,440
um that's scary then we're doomed as a

2808
01:40:14,629 --> 01:40:13,440
species and that's what i see going on

2809
01:40:17,990 --> 01:40:14,639
now

2810
01:40:20,310 --> 01:40:18,000
to me the polarization in the politics

2811
01:40:21,669 --> 01:40:20,320
is just a symptom of the fact that

2812
01:40:23,590 --> 01:40:21,679
people

2813
01:40:26,229 --> 01:40:23,600
are suspicious of everything don't trust

2814
01:40:27,910 --> 01:40:26,239
anything you name it it may be trump

2815
01:40:29,830 --> 01:40:27,920
today but it's another subject tomorrow

2816
01:40:32,790 --> 01:40:29,840
same principle

2817
01:40:34,229 --> 01:40:32,800
and this is why we're losing it because

2818
01:40:36,470 --> 01:40:34,239
we're not thinking critically and we're

2819
01:40:38,950 --> 01:40:36,480
not going back to fundamentals and

2820
01:40:41,669 --> 01:40:38,960
basics of who what where

2821
01:40:43,990 --> 01:40:41,679
why when and how when you nail those

2822
01:40:45,669 --> 01:40:44,000
down you've got clear understanding

2823
01:40:47,750 --> 01:40:45,679
clear communication

2824
01:40:50,310 --> 01:40:47,760
and the greatest thing about facts is

2825
01:40:52,709 --> 01:40:50,320
that they can be verified by anybody

2826
01:40:56,390 --> 01:40:52,719
wishing to do so yeah i'm really and i

2827
01:40:58,870 --> 01:40:56,400
am hugely big on uh citing sources

2828
01:41:01,030 --> 01:40:58,880
uh that anybody can go after me

2829
01:41:03,590 --> 01:41:01,040
and find the same thing and i

2830
01:41:05,430 --> 01:41:03,600
i hear you talk about uh this thing

2831
01:41:07,590 --> 01:41:05,440
called right-click researchers because

2832
01:41:09,189 --> 01:41:07,600
you know us younger guys

2833
01:41:10,870 --> 01:41:09,199
you know we have the benefit of the

2834
01:41:13,189 --> 01:41:10,880
internet but it seems to me that like

2835
01:41:15,350 --> 01:41:13,199
nobody does things on the ground nobody

2836
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:15,360
i have done amazing work just picking up

2837
01:41:20,709 --> 01:41:18,480
the phone and i'm amazed that the

2838
01:41:23,910 --> 01:41:20,719
younger crowd does not just pick up the

2839
01:41:25,590 --> 01:41:23,920
phone try to talk to people witnesses or

2840
01:41:28,310 --> 01:41:25,600
sources and get

2841
01:41:29,990 --> 01:41:28,320
their story direct on the phone we even

2842
01:41:31,510 --> 01:41:30,000
have an aversion to that and you talk

2843
01:41:33,270 --> 01:41:31,520
about this thing called right click

2844
01:41:34,629 --> 01:41:33,280
researchers which i think is so funny

2845
01:41:35,990 --> 01:41:34,639
it's like if it's not on the internet

2846
01:41:37,590 --> 01:41:36,000
they don't do it

2847
01:41:39,510 --> 01:41:37,600
you know yeah it's it's not only that

2848
01:41:41,910 --> 01:41:39,520
it's even worse and you're absolutely

2849
01:41:43,350 --> 01:41:41,920
right on all the points you make because

2850
01:41:44,950 --> 01:41:43,360
um

2851
01:41:46,870 --> 01:41:44,960
first of all most people have their

2852
01:41:49,270 --> 01:41:46,880
browser set for the top 10 hits that's

2853
01:41:51,830 --> 01:41:49,280
it okay and then as you know there's

2854
01:41:54,550 --> 01:41:51,840
games with the indexing of these things

2855
01:41:56,629 --> 01:41:54,560
if i want to pay money i can publish

2856
01:41:58,310 --> 01:41:56,639
[\h__\h] on the internet and and it'll

2857
01:42:00,950 --> 01:41:58,320
be the number one hit if you search on

2858
01:42:03,750 --> 01:42:00,960
my [\h__\h] i just gotta pay google you

2859
01:42:04,950 --> 01:42:03,760
know and pat it with the right metadata

2860
01:42:06,629 --> 01:42:04,960
and then there's the other thing and

2861
01:42:09,030 --> 01:42:06,639
well it's not on the internet i search

2862
01:42:11,510 --> 01:42:09,040
on google so it must not be true so one

2863
01:42:13,270 --> 01:42:11,520
recent example is i i told people that

2864
01:42:14,950 --> 01:42:13,280
there's a

2865
01:42:16,629 --> 01:42:14,960
complaint being put together against

2866
01:42:17,510 --> 01:42:16,639
ttsa

2867
01:42:19,350 --> 01:42:17,520
and

2868
01:42:21,830 --> 01:42:19,360
people said well i checked it it's not

2869
01:42:23,669 --> 01:42:21,840
true oh really who did you check with

2870
01:42:25,430 --> 01:42:23,679
you didn't ask me and i'm the guy who

2871
01:42:27,350 --> 01:42:25,440
knows about it

2872
01:42:30,550 --> 01:42:27,360
and i've got first hand info on it i

2873
01:42:33,270 --> 01:42:30,560
recently did an expose an update on bob

2874
01:42:33,990 --> 01:42:33,280
kiviat's lawsuit against uh upcoming up

2875
01:42:37,109 --> 01:42:34,000
uh

2876
01:42:38,950 --> 01:42:37,119
where it implicates ci disinfo guy

2877
01:42:41,350 --> 01:42:38,960
dr ron pandolfi

2878
01:42:44,229 --> 01:42:41,360
congressman marriott and joe farmage and

2879
01:42:46,790 --> 01:42:44,239
his techno scam at internasa

2880
01:42:48,790 --> 01:42:46,800
similar to ttsa again how plutoff has

2881
01:42:50,629 --> 01:42:48,800
been involved in that scam as well so

2882
01:42:53,030 --> 01:42:50,639
that's now going to court i updated that

2883
01:42:55,590 --> 01:42:53,040
expose the idea that pendelphi will go

2884
01:42:57,669 --> 01:42:55,600
under oath penalty perjury is quite

2885
01:42:59,189 --> 01:42:57,679
exciting because uh

2886
01:43:00,629 --> 01:42:59,199
one way to hold these guys accountable

2887
01:43:02,149 --> 01:43:00,639
is to put them under oath a penalty of

2888
01:43:03,750 --> 01:43:02,159
perjury they can't afford to have that

2889
01:43:05,109 --> 01:43:03,760
happen that would include people like

2890
01:43:07,910 --> 01:43:05,119
michael warren because there's

2891
01:43:09,669 --> 01:43:07,920
consequences when you try to do that

2892
01:43:11,669 --> 01:43:09,679
and in this case here there had been a

2893
01:43:13,910 --> 01:43:11,679
settlement in the case

2894
01:43:16,070 --> 01:43:13,920
agreed to by the court and then they

2895
01:43:18,070 --> 01:43:16,080
basically bs the court and now the court

2896
01:43:19,910 --> 01:43:18,080
has vacated it and they're going to

2897
01:43:21,910 --> 01:43:19,920
court unless something

2898
01:43:25,189 --> 01:43:21,920
settles out of the blue this is an

2899
01:43:26,950 --> 01:43:25,199
exciting story uh

2900
01:43:28,629 --> 01:43:26,960
there's another expose coming up about

2901
01:43:30,709 --> 01:43:28,639
harry reid there's some inside

2902
01:43:32,310 --> 01:43:30,719
whistleblower info about him and and the

2903
01:43:33,750 --> 01:43:32,320
atip scam

2904
01:43:37,109 --> 01:43:33,760
and where the money went and all that

2905
01:43:39,750 --> 01:43:37,119
other stuff i'm working out very quietly

2906
01:43:43,030 --> 01:43:39,760
it's amazing to me that so many ufo

2907
01:43:44,470 --> 01:43:43,040
stories lead to bob bigelow which i'm

2908
01:43:48,390 --> 01:43:44,480
he's kind of like

2909
01:43:49,990 --> 01:43:48,400
he comes off like a james bond villain

2910
01:43:52,149 --> 01:43:50,000
or like a movie character because he's

2911
01:43:54,709 --> 01:43:52,159
this billionaire and he's got his hands

2912
01:43:57,830 --> 01:43:54,719
in so many different ufo stories from

2913
01:43:59,990 --> 01:43:57,840
bob lazar to this a-tip thing to the

2914
01:44:02,310 --> 01:44:00,000
skinwalker ranch he's a pretty

2915
01:44:04,470 --> 01:44:02,320
fascinating character

2916
01:44:06,470 --> 01:44:04,480
yes but i think that

2917
01:44:08,870 --> 01:44:06,480
it's easy to explain because he's got

2918
01:44:11,910 --> 01:44:08,880
hal put off as his main guy and of

2919
01:44:13,350 --> 01:44:11,920
course putoff has his homeboy eric davis

2920
01:44:15,430 --> 01:44:13,360
those two guys have been involved in

2921
01:44:16,629 --> 01:44:15,440
techno scams for years going back to the

2922
01:44:18,629 --> 01:44:16,639
70s

2923
01:44:21,109 --> 01:44:18,639
when i was in high school as the press

2924
01:44:24,470 --> 01:44:21,119
articles from that time prove

2925
01:44:26,950 --> 01:44:24,480
i was the assistant director of research

2926
01:44:28,550 --> 01:44:26,960
uh for parapsychology

2927
01:44:31,350 --> 01:44:28,560
at the institute of paranormal science

2928
01:44:34,470 --> 01:44:31,360
which worked with sri at that time

2929
01:44:37,270 --> 01:44:34,480
so i know going back to high school uh

2930
01:44:38,709 --> 01:44:37,280
that the stuff with yuri geller and and

2931
01:44:40,790 --> 01:44:38,719
a lot of the stuff they were doing there

2932
01:44:43,669 --> 01:44:40,800
was just pure frauds and of course back

2933
01:44:45,350 --> 01:44:43,679
then how put off was pushing the e-meter

2934
01:44:47,350 --> 01:44:45,360
in scientology

2935
01:44:49,189 --> 01:44:47,360
and you can't you can't you can't take

2936
01:44:51,669 --> 01:44:49,199
that out of the universe he says oh i'm

2937
01:44:53,990 --> 01:44:51,679
not one anymore doesn't matter

2938
01:44:56,950 --> 01:44:54,000
same problem different scam

2939
01:44:59,189 --> 01:44:56,960
so um i've been in touch with people in

2940
01:45:00,149 --> 01:44:59,199
dc there are investigators working on

2941
01:45:02,709 --> 01:45:00,159
this

2942
01:45:05,430 --> 01:45:02,719
i've been very clear that in december

2943
01:45:07,990 --> 01:45:05,440
there will be this uh

2944
01:45:10,070 --> 01:45:08,000
complaint that will be sent to

2945
01:45:12,790 --> 01:45:10,080
ttsa they will have

2946
01:45:15,030 --> 01:45:12,800
i've been told 45 days to respond to it

2947
01:45:16,950 --> 01:45:15,040
if they don't respond to it then

2948
01:45:18,709 --> 01:45:16,960
it'll get interesting yeah the problem

2949
01:45:20,470 --> 01:45:18,719
the big problem that i you know a lot of

2950
01:45:22,870 --> 01:45:20,480
my listeners asked me i did a show on

2951
01:45:23,910 --> 01:45:22,880
ttsa and i did a lot of digging and

2952
01:45:25,350 --> 01:45:23,920
you know

2953
01:45:27,350 --> 01:45:25,360
the biggest problem that i have with

2954
01:45:28,830 --> 01:45:27,360
them is they're a public they're

2955
01:45:32,229 --> 01:45:28,840
supposed to be a public benefit

2956
01:45:34,550 --> 01:45:32,239
corporation and and uh if you look into

2957
01:45:35,990 --> 01:45:34,560
their finances and they have to file

2958
01:45:38,950 --> 01:45:36,000
some kind of finance you know they have

2959
01:45:41,270 --> 01:45:38,960
to give a balance sheet it's very

2960
01:45:44,470 --> 01:45:41,280
troubling that they're soliciting money

2961
01:45:46,070 --> 01:45:44,480
when they are spending it on crazy stuff

2962
01:45:48,070 --> 01:45:46,080
apparently when you look at the balance

2963
01:45:50,870 --> 01:45:48,080
sheet and it just doesn't nothing adds

2964
01:45:52,470 --> 01:45:50,880
up financially it just does not add up

2965
01:45:54,790 --> 01:45:52,480
like where's the money coming from where

2966
01:45:57,189 --> 01:45:54,800
is it going and when are these people

2967
01:46:00,149 --> 01:45:57,199
that gave you money to invest gonna get

2968
01:46:01,750 --> 01:46:00,159
their dividends or whatever and it just

2969
01:46:03,750 --> 01:46:01,760
doesn't seem

2970
01:46:07,109 --> 01:46:03,760
on the level to me

2971
01:46:08,709 --> 01:46:07,119
yeah it it based on what i've seen i

2972
01:46:10,229 --> 01:46:08,719
have made the claim and i think i can

2973
01:46:12,149 --> 01:46:10,239
defend this and if it turns out it's not

2974
01:46:13,669 --> 01:46:12,159
true i'll be happy to correct the record

2975
01:46:15,189 --> 01:46:13,679
but it gives every appearance of being a

2976
01:46:16,149 --> 01:46:15,199
pump and dump scheme

2977
01:46:17,510 --> 01:46:16,159
and

2978
01:46:19,750 --> 01:46:17,520
there's two things that have happened

2979
01:46:21,590 --> 01:46:19,760
recently and it has caused uh some

2980
01:46:23,990 --> 01:46:21,600
changes to be made to the complaint and

2981
01:46:25,030 --> 01:46:24,000
again i i have access to whistleblower

2982
01:46:27,270 --> 01:46:25,040
info

2983
01:46:30,950 --> 01:46:27,280
just like i have named the whistleblower

2984
01:46:32,470 --> 01:46:30,960
in the upcoming uh pindolphi uh issue uh

2985
01:46:34,470 --> 01:46:32,480
whistleblower there and

2986
01:46:36,310 --> 01:46:34,480
there's recordings of gandalfi perjuring

2987
01:46:37,109 --> 01:46:36,320
himself i've got those

2988
01:46:39,510 --> 01:46:37,119
uh

2989
01:46:42,310 --> 01:46:39,520
original emails everything it's it's a

2990
01:46:44,229 --> 01:46:42,320
open and shut case so i have been

2991
01:46:47,189 --> 01:46:44,239
sending this stuff back east including

2992
01:46:48,950 --> 01:46:47,199
two uh different investigators with

2993
01:46:50,470 --> 01:46:48,960
i'll just say the right three-letter

2994
01:46:52,229 --> 01:46:50,480
agencies that can trace this down

2995
01:46:55,669 --> 01:46:52,239
because the issue is is pin dolphy doing

2996
01:46:57,030 --> 01:46:55,679
this on his own or has he gone rogue

2997
01:46:59,350 --> 01:46:57,040
whenever you have a former deputy

2998
01:47:00,470 --> 01:46:59,360
director of the cia involved in techno

2999
01:47:02,790 --> 01:47:00,480
scams

3000
01:47:04,870 --> 01:47:02,800
it is a potential uh

3001
01:47:06,629 --> 01:47:04,880
security issue for the country when you

3002
01:47:08,629 --> 01:47:06,639
have gandalfi claiming he briefs

3003
01:47:10,310 --> 01:47:08,639
president trump when he doesn't

3004
01:47:12,629 --> 01:47:10,320
secret service needs to know about that

3005
01:47:14,070 --> 01:47:12,639
if i claim i brief trump and i don't i

3006
01:47:15,350 --> 01:47:14,080
need to be reported to the secret

3007
01:47:18,950 --> 01:47:15,360
service

3008
01:47:20,790 --> 01:47:18,960
that's just reality so back to ttsa um

3009
01:47:22,709 --> 01:47:20,800
issue is

3010
01:47:25,270 --> 01:47:22,719
the one thing you can say based on their

3011
01:47:27,830 --> 01:47:25,280
filings is that the money goes to tom

3012
01:47:28,790 --> 01:47:27,840
delong he got money again for the arts

3013
01:47:31,109 --> 01:47:28,800
parts

3014
01:47:32,709 --> 01:47:31,119
i'm sorry as the person who exposed arts

3015
01:47:34,229 --> 01:47:32,719
parts i was the one to do it in my book

3016
01:47:35,830 --> 01:47:34,239
the roswell ufo crash what they don't

3017
01:47:37,430 --> 01:47:35,840
want you to know you can get it on

3018
01:47:39,350 --> 01:47:37,440
amazon

3019
01:47:41,669 --> 01:47:39,360
that this thing was exposed in the 90s

3020
01:47:43,669 --> 01:47:41,679
even art bell knew it was a hoax he

3021
01:47:45,910 --> 01:47:43,679
admitted later was

3022
01:47:47,510 --> 01:47:45,920
open and shut case it makes no sense but

3023
01:47:49,350 --> 01:47:47,520
linda molten how is in there these

3024
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:49,360
people are not credible but one thing i

3025
01:47:56,149 --> 01:47:52,800
noticed um they now have a guy on their

3026
01:47:57,750 --> 01:47:56,159
board who has a tainted track record of

3027
01:47:58,950 --> 01:47:57,760
pump and dump he's been under

3028
01:48:01,910 --> 01:47:58,960
investigation

3029
01:48:04,470 --> 01:48:01,920
by the sec in fact when i talked to sec

3030
01:48:06,229 --> 01:48:04,480
about ttsa they told me point blank that

3031
01:48:08,470 --> 01:48:06,239
one of the things they've started to do

3032
01:48:10,229 --> 01:48:08,480
was check all intelligence databases

3033
01:48:11,669 --> 01:48:10,239
around the world

3034
01:48:13,990 --> 01:48:11,679
now that that's something they normally

3035
01:48:15,510 --> 01:48:14,000
don't bother with because they have a

3036
01:48:18,550 --> 01:48:15,520
real concern that this is a pump and

3037
01:48:20,629 --> 01:48:18,560
dump scam and this guy that he's been

3038
01:48:21,750 --> 01:48:20,639
brought on now i think his last name is

3039
01:48:24,229 --> 01:48:21,760
miser

3040
01:48:26,709 --> 01:48:24,239
interesting last name uh

3041
01:48:28,629 --> 01:48:26,719
they are now targeting medical devices

3042
01:48:30,629 --> 01:48:28,639
and that is potentially horrifying

3043
01:48:32,629 --> 01:48:30,639
because if you have the

3044
01:48:34,790 --> 01:48:32,639
so-called uh standards of science for

3045
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:34,800
arts parts applied to a medical device

3046
01:48:41,510 --> 01:48:39,669
think about it this this this whole

3047
01:48:43,910 --> 01:48:41,520
thing is crazy to me because i remember

3048
01:48:46,149 --> 01:48:43,920
following arts parts originally and

3049
01:48:47,270 --> 01:48:46,159
again coming out disappointed that you

3050
01:48:49,189 --> 01:48:47,280
know

3051
01:48:51,030 --> 01:48:49,199
linamo now is a terrible source that

3052
01:48:52,310 --> 01:48:51,040
can't be trusted so as soon as i heard

3053
01:48:54,390 --> 01:48:52,320
that the

3054
01:48:56,229 --> 01:48:54,400
source of these so-called and they

3055
01:48:58,070 --> 01:48:56,239
basically said that these are possibly

3056
01:48:59,669 --> 01:48:58,080
alien materials then they backpedaled

3057
01:49:01,910 --> 01:48:59,679
and i got in trouble because i caught

3058
01:49:03,270 --> 01:49:01,920
them using a stock image

3059
01:49:05,669 --> 01:49:03,280
of a

3060
01:49:07,750 --> 01:49:05,679
common earthly rock when they're making

3061
01:49:10,390 --> 01:49:07,760
these announcements and to me why are

3062
01:49:11,270 --> 01:49:10,400
you posting a picture of a common earth

3063
01:49:13,350 --> 01:49:11,280
rock

3064
01:49:15,189 --> 01:49:13,360
when it's supposed to be alien materials

3065
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:15,199
you know but it's just a picture that

3066
01:49:20,070 --> 01:49:17,920
looks good so

3067
01:49:21,990 --> 01:49:20,080
the ttsa fanboys i call them have

3068
01:49:23,510 --> 01:49:22,000
attacked me mercilessly i kind of

3069
01:49:24,870 --> 01:49:23,520
stopped talking about it because i just

3070
01:49:26,470 --> 01:49:24,880
i don't want you know i'm kind of

3071
01:49:28,149 --> 01:49:26,480
waiting to see what happens because i

3072
01:49:31,350 --> 01:49:28,159
think it's going to crash and burn

3073
01:49:32,709 --> 01:49:31,360
that's my that's my best guess

3074
01:49:35,270 --> 01:49:32,719
yeah i think it's going to crash and

3075
01:49:36,709 --> 01:49:35,280
burn for the only reason that matters i

3076
01:49:38,790 --> 01:49:36,719
think you're right on this is because

3077
01:49:40,070 --> 01:49:38,800
there's nothing there if not you know

3078
01:49:43,270 --> 01:49:40,080
you can only

3079
01:49:44,870 --> 01:49:43,280
amount of time

3080
01:49:47,830 --> 01:49:44,880
so let's say it does crash and burn a

3081
01:49:49,589 --> 01:49:47,840
year from now just to make up an example

3082
01:49:51,830 --> 01:49:49,599
then what are you left with you're left

3083
01:49:54,149 --> 01:49:51,840
with people who got ripped off so what

3084
01:49:56,629 --> 01:49:54,159
i'm trying to do is

3085
01:49:57,830 --> 01:49:56,639
focus the media and doing my part as a

3086
01:49:59,669 --> 01:49:57,840
journalist and working with

3087
01:50:01,589 --> 01:49:59,679
investigators in dc

3088
01:50:03,189 --> 01:50:01,599
you know i've i've done

3089
01:50:05,270 --> 01:50:03,199
over the

3090
01:50:07,270 --> 01:50:05,280
decades i have worked with different

3091
01:50:09,270 --> 01:50:07,280
government agencies and things of mutual

3092
01:50:11,430 --> 01:50:09,280
interest i was one of the people who

3093
01:50:13,830 --> 01:50:11,440
found evidence uh independent of anybody

3094
01:50:15,430 --> 01:50:13,840
else that iran had a rogue nuclear

3095
01:50:17,270 --> 01:50:15,440
weapons program i turned over that

3096
01:50:19,109 --> 01:50:17,280
evidence and software that they were

3097
01:50:21,030 --> 01:50:19,119
using to avoid sanctions

3098
01:50:23,270 --> 01:50:21,040
to various intelligence agencies

3099
01:50:25,589 --> 01:50:23,280
including mossad for example because i

3100
01:50:27,350 --> 01:50:25,599
know israel needed to know that info

3101
01:50:28,870 --> 01:50:27,360
and i was in a position to get it in

3102
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:28,880
prague and i did and it's a matter of

3103
01:50:32,470 --> 01:50:30,400
record and i have a copy of that

3104
01:50:34,229 --> 01:50:32,480
software to protect my ass because at

3105
01:50:35,910 --> 01:50:34,239
the time the obama administration didn't

3106
01:50:37,669 --> 01:50:35,920
want to hear it you know

3107
01:50:40,229 --> 01:50:37,679
everything was good with iran which is

3108
01:50:41,589 --> 01:50:40,239
nonsense so anyway i've been involved in

3109
01:50:43,910 --> 01:50:41,599
all this stuff so i have been dealing

3110
01:50:46,070 --> 01:50:43,920
with investigators back east and there's

3111
01:50:47,350 --> 01:50:46,080
one thing that was rather interesting in

3112
01:50:50,310 --> 01:50:47,360
the recent

3113
01:50:52,149 --> 01:50:50,320
change to the board personnel with ttsa

3114
01:50:53,830 --> 01:50:52,159
which again has caused investigators to

3115
01:50:55,189 --> 01:50:53,840
look at this

3116
01:50:58,950 --> 01:50:55,199
i wondered

3117
01:51:00,790 --> 01:50:58,960
why it was that a media savvy president

3118
01:51:02,550 --> 01:51:00,800
trump in this case

3119
01:51:04,629 --> 01:51:02,560
all this stuff's going on about ufos

3120
01:51:06,629 --> 01:51:04,639
ttsa history channel all that new york

3121
01:51:09,750 --> 01:51:06,639
times and the white house is largely

3122
01:51:11,990 --> 01:51:09,760
silent look how long it was steve

3123
01:51:14,709 --> 01:51:12,000
before trump finally said something

3124
01:51:16,149 --> 01:51:14,719
about ufos it was well over a year yeah

3125
01:51:18,550 --> 01:51:16,159
after the new york times story that's

3126
01:51:21,270 --> 01:51:18,560
strange too because he is definitely the

3127
01:51:23,589 --> 01:51:21,280
most media savvy president and and also

3128
01:51:25,350 --> 01:51:23,599
a manipulator a master manipulator i

3129
01:51:28,390 --> 01:51:25,360
would say of the media

3130
01:51:30,550 --> 01:51:28,400
absolutely just ignore that absolutely

3131
01:51:33,589 --> 01:51:30,560
absolutely so he missed an opportunity

3132
01:51:35,430 --> 01:51:33,599
to miss an opportunity which you know

3133
01:51:36,390 --> 01:51:35,440
you can interpret that one or two ways

3134
01:51:38,149 --> 01:51:36,400
with trump

3135
01:51:38,950 --> 01:51:38,159
so now

3136
01:51:40,950 --> 01:51:38,960
so

3137
01:51:42,470 --> 01:51:40,960
the only way that that would be possible

3138
01:51:43,910 --> 01:51:42,480
is if somebody in the white house

3139
01:51:47,669 --> 01:51:43,920
communications

3140
01:51:50,229 --> 01:51:47,679
uh hierarchy made the determination not

3141
01:51:51,589 --> 01:51:50,239
to allow this data to boil up to the

3142
01:51:52,709 --> 01:51:51,599
point where the president would get a

3143
01:51:54,870 --> 01:51:52,719
whiff of it

3144
01:51:56,950 --> 01:51:54,880
because you know he other than the stuff

3145
01:51:59,270 --> 01:51:56,960
he looks at himself there are people who

3146
01:52:01,589 --> 01:51:59,280
screen and filter his stuff that's what

3147
01:52:02,870 --> 01:52:01,599
they do for big guys okay

3148
01:52:07,189 --> 01:52:02,880
well

3149
01:52:11,030 --> 01:52:07,199
that one of the the newest member of

3150
01:52:12,709 --> 01:52:11,040
ttsa was a former deputy big shot in the

3151
01:52:13,990 --> 01:52:12,719
communications director of the white

3152
01:52:16,870 --> 01:52:14,000
house

3153
01:52:18,790 --> 01:52:16,880
for 18 months and he left right after

3154
01:52:22,070 --> 01:52:18,800
the history channel did their thing and

3155
01:52:24,229 --> 01:52:22,080
now he's with ttsa what are the odds

3156
01:52:25,830 --> 01:52:24,239
yeah i'm right there with you do you i

3157
01:52:26,790 --> 01:52:25,840
want to encourage my listeners you can

3158
01:52:30,070 --> 01:52:26,800
just

3159
01:52:32,310 --> 01:52:30,080
search on amazon to get cal's books uh

3160
01:52:34,070 --> 01:52:32,320
but if if you want people to contact you

3161
01:52:35,589 --> 01:52:34,080
is there a way that people can get in

3162
01:52:37,830 --> 01:52:35,599
touch with you

3163
01:52:40,390 --> 01:52:37,840
yeah my facebook page is open to the

3164
01:52:42,790 --> 01:52:40,400
public so most people have facebook you

3165
01:52:46,070 --> 01:52:42,800
can easily find me also if you want to

3166
01:52:47,510 --> 01:52:46,080
email me it's calcorf at yahoo.com

3167
01:52:49,350 --> 01:52:47,520
um had it

3168
01:52:50,470 --> 01:52:49,360
that email address forever

3169
01:52:52,390 --> 01:52:50,480
um

3170
01:52:54,070 --> 01:52:52,400
you know pretty reachable guy also you

3171
01:52:57,030 --> 01:52:54,080
can click on some of the links for

3172
01:52:59,430 --> 01:52:57,040
articles like on my medium page so

3173
01:53:02,229 --> 01:52:59,440
uh or if they want to try to reach you

3174
01:53:04,550 --> 01:53:02,239
uh me through you that's fine i have not

3175
01:53:06,390 --> 01:53:04,560
reactivated my web pages because i'm

3176
01:53:08,229 --> 01:53:06,400
just not sure they're needed because

3177
01:53:10,830 --> 01:53:08,239
they're redundant i got i put everything

3178
01:53:12,709 --> 01:53:10,840
on my facebook page uh why should i have

3179
01:53:14,550 --> 01:53:12,719
a face uh

3180
01:53:16,950 --> 01:53:14,560
calport.com page even though i have that

3181
01:53:18,390 --> 01:53:16,960
domain that says the same thing i don't

3182
01:53:20,030 --> 01:53:18,400
know i mean

3183
01:53:22,470 --> 01:53:20,040
i'm right there with you i just

3184
01:53:24,709 --> 01:53:22,480
directed.com to go to the facebook page

3185
01:53:26,470 --> 01:53:24,719
because it's so much easier yeah than

3186
01:53:27,669 --> 01:53:26,480
maintaining the web page and stuff like

3187
01:53:29,990 --> 01:53:27,679
that

3188
01:53:31,910 --> 01:53:30,000
yeah exactly and so uh when these

3189
01:53:33,830 --> 01:53:31,920
updates come out uh we'll have all this

3190
01:53:37,109 --> 01:53:33,840
figured out because we've got partners

3191
01:53:39,189 --> 01:53:37,119
um i have coming out on november 22nd it

3192
01:53:40,790 --> 01:53:39,199
should be on amazon the upcoming expose

3193
01:53:42,709 --> 01:53:40,800
on annie jacobson

3194
01:53:43,990 --> 01:53:42,719
and i had written that seven eight years

3195
01:53:47,030 --> 01:53:44,000
ago and it was published in the

3196
01:53:50,550 --> 01:53:47,040
newspapers but it's alive again because

3197
01:53:53,189 --> 01:53:50,560
again lack of opposition so i decided to

3198
01:53:55,910 --> 01:53:53,199
expand it to a book get it out there and

3199
01:53:58,070 --> 01:53:55,920
then i'm done with that issue uh but at

3200
01:54:00,070 --> 01:53:58,080
least when people search on her

3201
01:54:02,550 --> 01:54:00,080
she'll be able to find out that uh you

3202
01:54:04,390 --> 01:54:02,560
know her book is not true

3203
01:54:06,950 --> 01:54:04,400
well my friends that music means that

3204
01:54:10,550 --> 01:54:06,960
our time is running out here on the

3205
01:54:15,669 --> 01:54:13,270
in these past couple of weeks together

3206
01:54:17,830 --> 01:54:15,679
we have gone down the rabbit hole of the

3207
01:54:19,910 --> 01:54:17,840
billy meyer case

3208
01:54:23,830 --> 01:54:19,920
and i don't know about you but i am

3209
01:54:25,750 --> 01:54:23,840
sufficiently convinced after this time

3210
01:54:27,030 --> 01:54:25,760
that there's not much to the billy meyer

3211
01:54:29,350 --> 01:54:27,040
case

3212
01:54:32,310 --> 01:54:29,360
i think the evidence just isn't there it

3213
01:54:34,310 --> 01:54:32,320
falls apart under all scrutiny

3214
01:54:37,030 --> 01:54:34,320
and our guest tonight kalkworth to his

3215
01:54:39,910 --> 01:54:37,040
credit has pointed me in the direction

3216
01:54:42,790 --> 01:54:39,920
of what i believe is the truth

3217
01:54:46,070 --> 01:54:42,800
tonight i tried to get to the truth and

3218
01:54:48,390 --> 01:54:46,080
i took you with me on this journey until